winter palace tarp management in high winds

**chef4** · 01-22-2020, 18:08

Well hearing this makes my experience seem so benign.

From the great comments and earlier picture, i’ve figured out that I did multiple things wrong: too much ‘air’ between tarp edge and ground, tarp not oriented correctly for the wind (which shifted early), and tarp end angles not maximized for door closure. I’ll get back out in the next storm and see if I can do better. I’m also thinking of adding some short shock cord loops to my stakes, to make them easier to find if dropped, as i’m still missing one somewhere in the leaves (at least i’ll Always know where it is...). Thanks to everyone for your teaching points, it’s better to find out now than when I can’t run back to my house.

**MikekiM** · 01-22-2020, 20:11

Originally Posted by Dirtbaghiker

I used a brand new hammock gear standard DCF tarp with doors last weekend in 30 mph winds .. The gusts did get to 50 mph over night.. But unfortunately my tarp did not make it.. After about 1 hour in the beginning of the wind.. 30 mph ( about) the tarp shredded off the ridge line like a tissue. I have used my winter palace before plenty of times and also my standard DCF tarp without doors, plenty of times over the years and never had anything like this happen. On that note.. Last winter I had problems with my stakes, so This year I decided to try MSR groundhogs.. They worked perfectly!! Not 1 stake got loose or pulled out.

Those pics look even worse now that I look at them larger... I'd shed a few tears for sure.. but like I said.. it's Type II fun.

Originally Posted by cmoulder

This is a good point. My practice with the Palace is to just eyeball it and make sure the steepness is around 55° and it usually comes out right. I don't have any way of making a solid attachment at the bottom of the doors so I'm thinking of adding a Kam snap at the bottom of each door set solely for the pitching process, then unsnapping when done. But eyeballing alone can work okay if you practice it enough!

I've been experimenting with the ZPacks double door hooks. I replaced the lineloc with a tarp worm. They seem to work well thus far.

I have a loop and toggle in the middle of the doors that I have contemplated replacing with a Kam snap.. that's one spot where I think a hard connection could be really useful since the toggle doesn't do squat to hold the doors closed.

**unionmanbirch** · 01-22-2020, 21:11

Originally Posted by MikekiM

One easy way to determine how steep of a pitch is to connect your door corners before you set your stakes, either in beak mode or overlapped as above and then stake out the corners. Get the height as close to your hammock as you can, then with doors already connected, stake out and tension.

Why didn't I ever think of that? I just use shock cord from the door corners to the opposite tie outs and have occasionally staked it out too wide and left a gap. Thanks for the tip!

**Levi Tate** · 01-22-2020, 22:32

Originally Posted by Dirtbaghiker

I used a brand new hammock gear standard DCF tarp with doors last weekend in 30 mph winds .. The gusts did get to 50 mph over night.. But unfortunately my tarp did not make it.. After about 1 hour in the beginning of the wind.. 30 mph ( about) the tarp shredded off the ridge line like a tissue. I have used my winter palace before plenty of times and also my standard DCF tarp without doors, plenty of times over the years and never had anything like this happen. On that note.. Last winter I had problems with my stakes, so This year I decided to try MSR groundhogs.. They worked perfectly!! Not 1 stake got loose or pulled out.

Attachment 179305 Attachment 179306
In the picture you can see where it shredded off ridgeline.

Man that sux. Did you use a continuous ridgeline for the tarp, or separate lines off each end of the tarp?

**Dirtbaghiker** · 01-22-2020, 22:54

Originally Posted by Levi Tate

Man that sux. Did you use a continuous ridgeline for the tarp, or separate lines off each end of the tarp?

I use fixed ridge line.. each end has Dutch stingerz with 12 ft reflector line attached.

**Levi Tate** · 01-22-2020, 23:21

Fixed?

If 2 separate lines, do you think that contributed to the tarp ripping?

**cmoulder** · 01-23-2020, 06:32

Originally Posted by Levi Tate

Fixed?

If 2 separate lines, do you think that contributed to the tarp ripping?

That's a good question.

I use a single line with prusiks to attach the tarp to it. This way I can make the ridge line tight as the proverbial banjo string and control the stress put on the tarp itself... it seems to me that this might be preferred to having those tarp RL attachment points stretched really tight, pre-loading so to speak. With the single line setup I do not use shock cords, but I think that the flexibility in the system might help reduce shock loading.

My only similar anecdotal data point comes from an experience a couple of years ago at Dolly Sods. We were camped in a fairly exposed area at a time when the remnants of a tropical storm (formerly Hurricane Michael, IIRC) were scooting up the East Coast and leaving a very strong pressure gradient on the back side of the system. Very strong wind... no exaggeration to say 30mph sustained and frequent gusts to 50mph and maybe more. I was getting knocked around like a piñata, nearly certain that my dainty HG Hex with .51 DCF was going to be ripped by morning, but somehow it held firm and I've used it many times since.

Did the tarp RL setup make the difference? I don't know... there are so many factors involved that apple-to-apple comparisons are difficult.

**Dirtbaghiker** · 01-23-2020, 06:36

Its possible.. maybe i will try it.

**MikekiM** · 01-23-2020, 06:40

Originally Posted by cmoulder

That's a good question.

I use a single line with prusiks to attach the tarp to it. This way I can make the ridge line tight as the proverbial banjo string and control the stress put on the tarp itself... it seems to me that this might be preferred to having those tarp RL attachment points stretched really tight, pre-loading so to speak. With the single line setup I do not use shock cords, but I think that the flexibility in the system might help reduce shock loading.

My only similar anecdotal data point comes from an experience a couple of years ago at Dolly Sods. We were camped in a fairly exposed area at a time when the remnants of a tropical storm (formerly Hurricane Michael, IIRC) were scooting up the East Coast and leaving a very strong pressure gradient on the back side of the system. Very strong wind... no exaggeration to say 30mph sustained and frequent gusts to 50mph and maybe more. I was getting knocked around like a piñata, nearly certain that my dainty HG Hex with .51 DCF was going to be ripped by morning, but somehow it held firm and I've used it many times since.

Did the tarp RL setup make the difference? I don't know... there are so many factors involved that apple-to-apple comparisons are difficult.

hmmmm.... that's the first good argument I've seen for using a CRL instead of split RL's

**chef4** · 01-23-2020, 07:04

If i could ask a related question, i’m using a zing it crl attached with zing it prusiks. Instead of slipping easily they are difficult to move (even when not under tension). Should I switch to different line for them? I may also have overlooped them and i’m going to try again with that. I started with a lot of ‘bling’ and i’m gradually switching to knots as I improve.