Winter sock - how warm?

[SilvrSurfr]

I must admit - I will probably never experiment with VB clothing. And there are very few people who participate in the "Vapor Barriers - what is your opinion?" thread. It's just the same handful (though they've reached 331 posts in that thread - impressive!).

And no, I'm not challenging you. I just offer your opinion as different from mine. I do give credit where credit is due - you love vapor barriers, and I don't. In the end, the market decides, and I think it's decided, because even if Dejoha, Skurka and a handful of others on HF may have written about the topic, the market hasn't caught on, and I doubt it ever will. It is a very esoteric subject, you will admit?

In the end, I don't see much difference between condensation and sweating. All that moisture has to be processed in some way. The moisture from my breath has to find some way out of my hammock, just as the moisture from sweating does. And I'll admit, I'm a sweater at night, as are all three of my kids. The sweating doesn't start until I reach REM sleep stage, then it's pretty constant until I wake up.

As far as denial goes, I've always wondered about people who use HHSS silnylon undercovers, or top covers, or winter socks, or space blankets. At group hangs, I've actually gone and checked out the setups of people who use that stuff. And while they said they got no condensation or moisture buildup, their HHSS silnylon undercover was soaked. Their space blanket was soaked. Their top cover was soaked. Their winter sock was soaked in the morning. And if I ask them if they had problems with moisture? They said no. Is that denial? Of course, I've only checked a handful of setups, but the meager evidence I've collected indicates to me that there is the strong possibility of denial.

Ever wonder why HH stopped making silnylon UQPs for their Supershelters? I know Tom Hennessey can be thick-headed (since his products have hardly changed in years) but he had to at some point conclude that there was a condensation, or sweating issue, that was not exactly boosting sales. Why did 2QZQ stop making silnylon UQPs?

By the way, I do think vapor barriers for hands and feet make sense. However, you're not going to find me sleeping in a garbage bag or a leaf bag.

Frost bibs also make sense but they don't do anything to mitigate condensation or moisture buildup - they just provide a different area for the condensation to collect on, rather than your quilts. Which makes me wonder, does Shug have no idea what he is talking about? I mean, Shug obviously has condensation from his breath that would collect on his topquilts if he didn't use a frost bib. Why is that condensation not exiting the vents? Shug has a Chameleon. Shug has hammocks with bugnet vents. Why isn't the condensation exiting the vents rather than settling on the top quilt?

[BillyBob58]

........................................
As far as denial goes, I've always wondered about people who use HHSS silnylon undercovers, or top covers, or winter socks, or space blankets. At group hangs, I've actually gone and checked out the setups of people who use that stuff. And while they said they got no condensation or moisture buildup, their HHSS silnylon undercover was soaked. Their space blanket was soaked. Their top cover was soaked. Their winter sock was soaked in the morning. And if I ask them if they had problems with moisture? They said no. Is that denial? Of course, I've only checked a handful of setups, but the meager evidence I've collected indicates to me that there is the strong possibility of denial.

Ever wonder why HH stopped making silnylon UQPs for their Supershelters? I know Tom Hennessey can be thick-headed (since his products have hardly changed in years) but he had to at some point conclude that there was a condensation, or sweating issue, that was not exactly boosting sales. Why did 2QZQ stop making silnylon UQPs?

By the way, I do think vapor barriers for hands and feet make sense. However, you're not going to find me sleeping in a garbage bag or a leaf bag.

Frost bibs also make sense but they don't do anything to mitigate condensation or moisture buildup - they just provide a different area for the condensation to collect on, rather than your quilts. Which makes me wonder, does Shug have no idea what he is talking about? I mean, Shug obviously has condensation from his breath that would collect on his topquilts if he didn't use a frost bib. Why is that condensation not exiting the vents? Shug has a Chameleon. Shug has hammocks with bugnet vents. Why isn't the condensation exiting the vents rather than settling on the top quilt?

Who are these people who said they were dry but you observed were soaked? Any one that participates here? Because if that is the case it sounds like those folks have some issues. I'd really like to hear their comments about that. As for the people here - other than myself- who have used the HHSS with no condensation problems- I assume you figure they were actually soaked, and are just lying or delusional?

Last time I checked, probably within weeks, HH was still selling their traditional SS right along with the new one. The new one I'm afraid has issues because it still uses the space blanket but they have moved it onto the cold side of the insulation, I think.

I don't understand what you are asking me about Shug, since I agree totally with everything Shug says about frost bibs, as I stated in my previous posts. Had I not used a frost bib, I'm sure I would have had a lot more condensation than what I had, which was zero(other than on the frost bib)

[SilvrSurfr]

Who are these people who said they were dry but you observed were soaked? Any one that participates here? Because if that is the case it sounds like those folks have some issues. I'd really like to hear their comments about that. As for the people here - other than myself- who have used the HHSS with no condensation problems- I assume you figure they were actually soaked, and are just lying or delusional?

Wet is wet. I didn't take notes for future interrogation.

Last time I checked, probably within weeks, HH was still selling their traditional SS right along with the new one. The new one I'm afraid has issues because it still uses the space blanket but they have moved it onto the cold side of the insulation, I think.

Sorry, I thought they had stopped using silnylon on their undercover. Apparently, they haven't, but 2QZQ definitely discontinued their silnylon UQP.

I don't understand what you are asking me about Shug, since I agree totally with everything Shug says about frost bibs, as I stated in my previous posts. Had I not used a frost bib, I'm sure I would have had a lot more condensation than what I had, which was zero(other than on the frost bib)

The point is, there is condensation from your breath. That condensation doesn't exit through vents - it stays in the hammock. If you want it to collect on your frost bib, then that's an option, but it doesn't miraculously exit through bugnet vents.

[OutandBack]

Yeah, 5 degrees seems a bit generous, but some people swear by them. Like most folks, socks and top covers create too much condensation for me. It has to be below 15* F before I'll even consider using one.

I am just the opposite the colder it gets the less a covered hammock helps and the more venting you need. There is a range where covered hammocks really shine go outside of that range and you will enter a world of condensation as you have never experienced.
It really sucks that so many vendors call these winter covers when they absolutely suck in winter (from your breath condensation) in the extreme cold.

[SilvrSurfr]

Interesting experience. Thanks. I'm thinking that I saw no evidence of condensation, because of the hydroscopic nature of the 210T taffeta fabric. It just soaks in and doesn't condense on top, which is okay by me. It's not noticeably damp, however, so a few minutes of airing out in the morning should take care of it. I just wish it was a bit smaller and lighter. Room in the pack is tight. More like nonexistant.

Hydroscopic? I can't really find any meaning of the word that would relate to winter socks.

Definition of hydroscope
: a device for enabling a person to see an object at a considerable distance below the surface of water by means of a series of mirrors enclosed in a steel tube.

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/hydroscope

[SilvrSurfr]

I am just the opposite the colder it gets the less a covered hammock helps and the more venting you need. There is a range where covered hammocks really shine go outside of that range and you will enter a world of condensation as you have never experienced.

I agree with that, at least in my experience.

[GoneShootn]

Hydroscopic? I can't really find any meaning of the word that would relate to winter socks.

Definition of hydroscope
: a device for enabling a person to see an object at a considerable distance below the surface of water by means of a series of mirrors enclosed in a steel tube.

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/hydroscope

Good catch. The proper word, I believe, is hydrophilic.

[OutandBack]

Good catch. The proper word, I believe, is hydrophilic.

Good lord I had to google that (A hydrophilic molecule or portion of a molecule is one whose interactions with water and other polar substances are more thermodynamically favorable than their interactions with oil or other hydrophobic solvents. They are typically charge-polarized and capable of hydrogen bonding.) an I still don't understand it.
Bottomline If you can see your breath don't use your hammocks top cover. Buy proper quilts and you will be snug as a bug in a rug.

[Orthofingers]

Question: Do you always sleep in VB shirt and pants or is there a temperature below which you'll use the VB sleep clothes?

[Shug]

I must admit - I will probably never experiment with VB clothing. And there are very few people who participate in the "Vapor Barriers - what is your opinion?" thread. It's just the same handful (though they've reached 331 posts in that thread - impressive!).

And no, I'm not challenging you. I just offer your opinion as different from mine. I do give credit where credit is due - you love vapor barriers, and I don't. In the end, the market decides, and I think it's decided, because even if Dejoha, Skurka and a handful of others on HF may have written about the topic, the market hasn't caught on, and I doubt it ever will. It is a very esoteric subject, you will admit?

In the end, I don't see much difference between condensation and sweating. All that moisture has to be processed in some way. The moisture from my breath has to find some way out of my hammock, just as the moisture from sweating does. And I'll admit, I'm a sweater at night, as are all three of my kids. The sweating doesn't start until I reach REM sleep stage, then it's pretty constant until I wake up.

As far as denial goes, I've always wondered about people who use HHSS silnylon undercovers, or top covers, or winter socks, or space blankets. At group hangs, I've actually gone and checked out the setups of people who use that stuff. And while they said they got no condensation or moisture buildup, their HHSS silnylon undercover was soaked. Their space blanket was soaked. Their top cover was soaked. Their winter sock was soaked in the morning. And if I ask them if they had problems with moisture? They said no. Is that denial? Of course, I've only checked a handful of setups, but the meager evidence I've collected indicates to me that there is the strong possibility of denial.

Ever wonder why HH stopped making silnylon UQPs for their Supershelters? I know Tom Hennessey can be thick-headed (since his products have hardly changed in years) but he had to at some point conclude that there was a condensation, or sweating issue, that was not exactly boosting sales. Why did 2QZQ stop making silnylon UQPs?

By the way, I do think vapor barriers for hands and feet make sense. However, you're not going to find me sleeping in a garbage bag or a leaf bag.

Frost bibs also make sense but they don't do anything to mitigate condensation or moisture buildup - they just provide a different area for the condensation to collect on, rather than your quilts. Which makes me wonder, does Shug have no idea what he is talking about? I mean, Shug obviously has condensation from his breath that would collect on his topquilts if he didn't use a frost bib. Why is that condensation not exiting the vents? Shug has a Chameleon. Shug has hammocks with bugnet vents. Why isn't the condensation exiting the vents rather than settling on the top quilt?

Well I never use top covers or socks or VBs. I have tried and was warm and wet when I awoke.
Tried them all. Always way too much frost and condensation.
Mainly I like the frost bib as I just don't like that icy TQ head end cold on my neck.
But truth be told I got into hammocks for the feeling of being open and seeing the woods and putting a sock over me defeats the purpose of that openess.
I am of the camp of do and try and use whatever suits your style.
Shug