I finally tested this, not by choice. I thought bugs would be out for last week's trip so I took the Warbonnet Blackbird. Didn't see bugs but I zipped up anyway.Originally Posted by blgoode
All 4 nights were a fairly consistent 32-35°. One night it was raining the whole time. Zero moisture! Nowhere to be found. I don't want to get too excited yet, but in those conditions I was worried. Good thing, because I had absolutely no time to air things out before the next night's setup.
YAY!....................
Ha ha. Bam! Told yah. Have to keep a slightly warmer climate so the air moisture stays outside your little ecosystem and can’t collect inside of it. It will collect where the cold air meets the warmer air.
I was shocked when even in my warbonnet shelf at about 26 degree my water didn’t freeze because of my body heat hanging just that close to the water bottle.
Not that it matters, whatever works is all that matters. But I am still curious: has OneClick's problem been his body vapor traveling thru his TQ insulation and condensing when it strikes the cold outer shell? Or has external moisture from the air drifted in(no net to hinder it), and contacted his TQ shell, which has some how been cooled below the dew point? And then condensing on it?
I think it is the outer moisture problem.
Seems reasonable.
I wish I knew for sure. I'm leaning towards that as well. Worse in the winter with my breath adding to the moisture.
I really hate the thought of using my bug net all the time though. Getting into winter camp, 5° with a nice view of snow, and zipping myself into a body bag. I will give it a try though. And not using my DIY hammock. Bummer.
Pretty easy solution though to keep the outside “outside”
Plus. Pre sleep and post sleep just unzip and open up hammock some.
Considering you can not stand the thought of being iunder a net on a cold, snowy night here is a thought that is extreme. But in your extreme case(or for anyone on longer expedition type trips with chance of drying out each day unlikely), it will work. I know you know the drill, but someday it might be worth an experiment for you and actually trying it.
1: Stephenson's Warmiight(sp?) VB clothing, with fuzzy stuff lining. For weight/bulk considerations on winter trips, can replace one layer of more traditional base layer long John's.
2: A UL waterproof outer shell, but nothing at all over your head. Think Bivy sack, but could be much lighter. In fact, if you could mod it in some way to keep it in place, for your frequent problem, only a top layer would be needed. This would not only prevent any external source of condensation from reaching your insulation, but prevent any side ways rain, snow or fog getting to your insulation, possibly even over coming any tarp failure like a leak. (but obviously more limited against rain/snow if only covering the top layer). It would prevent or limit concerns about external water or condensation even with a smaller tarp or wide open pitch or those no tarp nights.
3: It would wind proof whatever it was covering, even with a high/wide tarp pitch, or no tarp at all.
4: This would add some weight. But since the quilts will probably be 20º+F warmer, once confidence in the system was gained, lighter quilts could be used. A smaller tarp could be used. A frost bib would not be needed. In a way, the waterproof top cover- laying on the top surface of the entire TQ- would be a frost bib.
5: Especially since it will be so darn warm, some venting and or use of minimal layers of insulation which can be added or removed when needed, will probably be required to prevent sweating. But at least if you do sweat, it will not get into your quilts. Evaporative cooling, due to evaporating insensible or outright sweat, will be eliminated.
6: Naturally, as we all know, using the outer WP shell without the VB clothing will result in copious condensation and soaked quilts, probably even if not using enough insulation to be warm enough.
I'm fairly certain this would prevent all moisture from all sources from making into your insulation. These principles are probably why I had such a bone dry night when setting my personal best, though only at +6F(balmy for you guys), still plenty cold enough for plenty of condensation inside my HH "sock" of sil-nylon UC and whatever the water resistant top cover is made of. Although in that case, since the top cover did not lay down on my TQ and I was exhaling inside of it, a frost bib was needed and was indeed quite wet. But, it was the only thing in the least bit wet. If I had not had the top cover over my entire hammock's RL- much like your net- I might have had some external source of condensation on my 20 oz down TQ, as you apparently often do.
I did just think of one potential problem of using a water proof top cover laying on top of a TQ- rather than a full surrounding sack. Even with VB clothing. And especially if no frost bib was used. If the condensation or liquid from external sources and breath on top of the water proof layer was of enough quantity, it might roll off of the top and down the sides, making contact with your body or lower hammock, maybe even soaking into the UQ unless it is also protected with a WP layer. So, if only using a WP TOP layer or shell, and IF the under insulation is not also protected(as with the space blanket with the HHSS), a frost bib might still be required. Just to keep the condensation on the WP top layer at a reasonable amount. While I have never had the kinds of noticeable condensation on the middle areas of the quilts like you(OneClick) have- even if I am not using VB clothing- I do often get a LOT of condensation(from my breath) on my TQs near my face/neck/shoulders, unless using a frost bib. I have never had this run down from the TQ into the bottom area of the hammock, but it might happen.
Last edited by BillyBob58; 06-03-2021 at 08:46.
Posting Permissions
Reply With Quote
Bookmarks