I wish I knew for sure. 4" of snow on the ground, some melting during the day for at least 2 of the days. So it wasn't a dry cold trip. I guess that seems to be all Michigan is dealing so far. I hope it changes or else winter will be over before it starts.Originally Posted by cmoulder
From my experience atmosphere around you has tons of moisture when we don’t think it does. Any fog, mist or anything passing through collects on things. My bug net is what I have used in winter to manage the atmosphere from rolling in on me. Only thing I notice that feels wet now is under quilt some, tarp etc. I’ve always brushed against the tarp and it be damp but not inside my bug net.
Was your inside tarp damp etc?
No dampness anywhere...even on warm-ish water bottles, pack, pulk, cast iron skillet, inside of tarp. If I had a bugnet I would be totally soaked...been there done that. That belongs on summer trips only for me.
And again, it's only in the mid section of the quilt. Not on footbox or around my neck (frost bib blocks it all) or sides. Well, maybe slightly damp on footbox but mainly in the middle. Beads of water everywhere.
It's amazing seeing the quilt on the floor at home now. Feels like half the weight and twice the loft.
What is the quilt shell material? 10D?
I continue to be amazed. This is a problem of type(middle only is damp) and extent the likes of which I've never had, with or without a VB, and you are having it repeatedly. If your VB is is keeping your body vapor inside the VB with you, how can it be condensing in the quilt? If the body vapor is not condensing in the quilt, what ia getting the quilt wet? Are you wet at all inside the VB?
90 argon outside, 67 inside. I do that on all my quilts and never had a problem until last January during a really cold trip.
I'm not wet inside the VB. At some points it feels slightly uncomfortably humid, but never enough to bother me. Overall, very comfortable and much warmer than without. Also a nice draft block.
So, we can rule out drooling. You never did say whether or not you are using a pee bottle and just keep missing.
A mystery. Where is this consistent moisture coming from? What about your frost bib? What are you using? What about a VB frost bib, something hanging between your face and middle quilt that not only would vapor be likely to condense upon, but also would not allow vapor that did not condense to get thru it and make it's way down to the middle of your quilt? If not hanging too close to your face, it would not have to be breathable.
Help me to make sure I understand what you are reporting.
"Night 1: VB (full body vapor barrier liner), no moisture!
Night 2: no VB, moisture, but kinda expected that
Night 3: VB, no moisture...but...
Night 4: VB, SOAKED.
..................
Both of the wet quilt nights"
So you were wet 2 nights, and the last wet night was a VB night? Correct? However, even though the quilt was soaked, you were pretty much dry inside the VB, right?
Possibilities:
1: The VB is not stopping the vapor, something is not working right. (seems very unlikely), which would help explain why yiu are dry inside but the quilt is soaked outside. The VB is breathable. (but again seems unlikely if you have at least felt humid)
2: Your breath is the source of the moisture, which of course no VB liner or clothing is going to have any influence on. (seems more likely than #1)
3: What else? Is an exterior source of vapor or dew or something some how getting on your quilt, and apparently only your quilt and also mostly the middle portion of your quilt? (this is funny/strange, because a seems to me a more common complaint for loss of loft due to condensation is foot area first.) The surface of a quilt- seems to me- especially under a tarp or tent- would be warmer (due to escaping body heat) than other nearby surfaces. Right? Condensation occurs on surfaces that are at or below the dew point. Why would the surface of the middle of your quilt be frequently below the dew point while everything else- including the quilt's foot box and hammock- was not? Assuming the source is exterior and not your body(if VB is not working) or breath? Why would exterior moisture from the air jump only on the middle of your TQ and condense?
4: Is this a TQ only problem? UQ is dry?
5: Do I have enough questions for you?
Last edited by BillyBob58; 01-06-2020 at 11:38.
Never too many questions! That's the only way to figure this out.
My frost bib is a big piece of fleece blanket cut like part of a tshirt so it goes over my head and lies over my TQ neck/chest area. But usually it sort of bunches up and catches breath. It gets wet and seems to be doing it's job. UQ has been nice and dry lately.
The VB is definitely not breathable. I mentioned earlier that the stitching isn't taped, so maybe I'll do that. But I can't imagine so much vapor getting thru that.
VB stops at my neck. Is the TQ somehow siphoning that escaping moist air back down into the quilt outside of the VB?
Someone mentioned draping a blanket or even light piece of bed sheet over my TQ. I really don't want to add more stuff, but maybe that would be a good test.
I still haven't tried the Tychem suit. It started as a joke but I do need to at least try that one night! But at that stage it's just a crazy science experiment and beyond actually enjoying camping.
How about the down itself, does it feel damp or just the fabric. You’ve pretty much ruled out everything except for something in the actual construction of this TQ. Did you use the same down in other projects?
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