"folded around me taco style". Inside the quilt, close to your body? Or around the outside of your quilt?Originally Posted by kayak4water
"folded around me taco style". Inside the quilt, close to your body? Or around the outside of your quilt?
Inside the quilt as the next layer after my clothing, yes. That's the intended method of use of these blankets.
He tried a vaper barrier at one point. So to me that is also the best solution. Unless you have something around you as a barrier for outside climate.
Yes I still want to give that another try. I had the same water beading along the stitching, so I assume that's moisture coming from my body and not breath just settling. My only thought is there was enough of my body not inside the VB bag, and the moisture was drawn down inside the TQ towards my feet where most of the water was located. I had the VB up to my arm pits, so arms and small portion of my torso exposed.
There's still the issue of that mid-20s temperature being too warm for that VB though. And that's where the issue starts or close to it (about 35° and below)
You have to remember. Even with the vaper barrier you are heating up the quilt. So that is warm air. When cold moist air from the outside hits the warm air it will cause condensation of the atmospheric moisture on your quilt. Even with the vaper barrier on the inside. So that being used doesn’t prevent the outside moisture from condensing on you on the outside. Think about it this way. A vaper barrier won’t prevent you from having dew on you if you cowboy camp in a field. That moisture can still find its way to you if the temps and climate have enough moisture and differences to cause the condensation on your top quilt.
I thought there would have to be moist air though. The air inside my home right now is stupid dry from the heat running so much (and whole-house humidifier broke). But there's no condensation on the glass, single and double pane.
Maybe someone smarter than myself can answer. As I reviewed info online condensation occurs from the bumping up of 2 climates. That’s the simple example.
I still assume when your body heats up the quilt it has moisture in it. If the moisture couldn’t reach the outside you would be insulated enough by the vaper barrier to not need the quilt. So I assume some moisture will still reach the outside climate.
And I know I have had moisture in cold weather settle as frost on me and not all frost is from my body or I’d never have frost on the outside of my tarp.
So - that tells me outside moisture is always present with the right temperature conditions so to minimize that I keep that outside climate away from me somewhat.
OK, thanks! That's what I figured, I just wanted to make sure I understood what you were saying. Since what OneClick had been discussing was laying a blanket (fleece?) on top of his quilt. If you had done that(laid over the outside of the quilt) with a space blanket( vapor barrier ) I would have expected you to have more condensation, not less. So I figured you were using it on the inside, in more of the usual vapor barrier approach.
You might not know it, but I am a pretty big fan(one of very few around here) of vapor barrier use, particularly if I am finding myself cold for whatever reason, or if I am concerned with keeping my quilts drier on trips more than a couple of days, especially if little sunshine(for drying) expected. Or, a lack of available time for drying out. I have used a space blanket(inside insulation) with some gear for many years, always with success. But, I have been experimenting more and more with VB clothing, specifically the "fuzzystuff" lined VB clothing made by Stephenson's Warmlite(sp?)
But, it's nice to see that when you used it between you and your quilt, it worked exactly as I would expect a vapor barrier to work. Noticeably warmer, plus drier. With a great comparison with your friends who were not using the space blanket/VB. Some of the warmth might have been from the reflective quality of the radiant blocker in the space blanket. People debate how much of that is radiant block and how much is just plain old VB. I do not know. Whether radiant blocking space blanket or regular old vapor barrier, all have worked as I would expect from the theory for me, and about as you report.
One final question: did you get much condensation(or sweat) inside the quilt, under the space blanket, close to your skin? Depending on how much you were wearing, even if you did that might still be preferable to a wet, cold quilt. And it apparently was in your case.
I agree that it is possible for outside moisture in the air to freeze and settle on surfaces like tarps(inside as well as outside), hammocks and quilts. (though not usually getting inside the insulation) I have had it happen even when I am not in the hammock. I'm not as certain(either way) about how much of that is from moisture that is already inside the quilt, before I get in and start adding my body vapor to the situation. For one thing, when I am not in the hammock and it happens, like you said, it happens on my tarp (and quilts and hammock and ground) when there is no warm body heat driving moisture out of the quilt towards the dew point. The tarp and hammock has no moisture to contribute, and no warm air to bump into cold, and can quickly become covered with dew or frost even with no heat or vapor from me being added to the conditions. But again, for me, this has always been limited to the outer surfaces, nothing inside the insulation. (but might be a problem if I must pack up wet! )
But, maybe, especially with someone in the quilt heating it up, there might be some residual moisture inside the quit that is driven outward by body heat(even with a VB) so that it can condense when it contacts the dew point. But in my experience, this would have to be pretty minimal. IOW, I have experienced some very dry quilts - when using a VB- much drier than normal. Similar to what Kayak4water just reported, compared to his experience on previous nights with no VB and the experience of his non VB using friends on the same night. And, considering how much condensation they had been getting on the previous nights, I would expect there to be some residual moisture inside his quilts for sure(unless he was able to sun dry them real good). But if so, it seems that adding the VB made that a non problem.
OTOH, OneClick seems to be unique. I don't really know what is happening with him. I'm hoping some day he will try some true VB clothing that goes right up to his neck and covers his arms. Perhaps using a 40F or 30F quilt at 20F, so he won't be too hot? Although, I'm surprised that the VB liner, even with the slightly reduced coverage he reported, didn't get the job done. It is mysterious to me.
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