Jumping back in-
24" dogbones seems very short... but it is 80% of 30" and you have the ring plus a little webbing too so it technically checks out for about a 200lb user. As you noted in another thread- the notched pole/ring/webbing interacts fairly uniquely so might as well copy what they did as things have held up fine for you thus far. It is a very deep bridge so the 'tippy' factor is likely balanced by the depth as well.
Marmot was once a premium brand but they long ago sold the name and watered down the gear- so the specs vary year to year and run to run. Point being- who knows what model you got exactly or what the quality control ratio is these days on weight variation from spec. This sorta gear is more like tennis shoes- updated yearly with no rhyme or reason at times. As you note with the Thermarest pads... gets a bit tricky at times with commercial stuff.
Generally speaking- most cottage vendors don't have that issue. And if they do- they will fix it. So regarding the trusted cottage vendors mentioned- don't stress over that issue. +/- a little is reasonable since it is a hand made product, but you won't see such wild differences in specs. Most cottage guys list a +/- variation they consider 'in spec' too.
Back to the Pad- sorry if I confused things thinking you had the other version of the pad. Again- large company and model year changes (without name changes) can mess things up.
I would strongly suggest you wait until the 2020 models regardless. The valve is updated to work with a pump sack (handy). Looks like the current weights include the Pad, pumpsack, stuff sack and repair kit on their website. REI typically will give you a stripped down weight (pad only) so that is probably why the number is 2-4 ounces different. REI was generally pretty good about giving 'real' weights and not just republishing the manufacturers weight... but as they have grown this can be more error prone. Usually you can find confirmation in reviews, but one reason (besides coupons and discounts) I still like REI is that you can easily return something with no issues. You buy XYZ brand gear from ABC outfitters online and you may have trouble returning a that item if it is wildly off spec.
From what I understand- Thermarest is leading a push to standardize R-value tests. That is the primary reason that the values are changing so much, though I'm not sure who else is joining them.
Like many cottage vendors here- thermarest tended to be a bit conservative. Many of the others though tend to be optimistic, sometimes laughably so. I still think Thermarest is the gold standard overall.
Bottom line on the pad- save it for later as you've got bigger fish to fry or lower hanging fruit to pick.
As mentioned before- with the updated values you may be able to skip over to the yellow colored Neo-Air pads if you can ditch the rectangle. That is the bigger win. If you skip back to my earlier post you'll see I mentioned you really aren't getting anywhere serious with the rectangular Xtherm except for R-value. Since it seems that R-value comparison was an error... then that premise is dead.
It is definitely easy to get squirrelly and face decision paralysis in todays market. Even a decade ago your choices were very limited and fairly clear. The good news is lighter gear is easy to come by AND all gear is lighter as what was once high end experimental stuff has filtered into standard gear. The bad news is that the options are plentiful.
Rather than go blind skimming sleeping pad specs or weighing the virtues of gear that will be on sale in the spring... we only looked at a slim portion of your gear.
After your big three+hammock... you still have a whole kit.
I would do a full gear list in your excel sheet- everything. Packed, carried, or worn.
You probably have some other stand out low hanging fruit.
Just one example.
https://www.amazon.com/Cascade-Mount...4786958&sr=8-4
There is a popular, cheap, and fairly light set of trekking poles. Compared to the ones you hadn't even considered weighing up to this point.
People are often horribly shocked to find their diddy bag weighs pounds not ounces. Or the swiss army knife or multi-tool they carry everyday is 8-12 ounces, the 10 year old mag lite still works but weighs double what the current model does. And on and on.
Most of UL backpacking is solved simply by simply considering what is actually going along to the woods with you. Especially for folks who have been doing this awhile. Stuff works, you use it, and just like that pair of underwear older than an average junior high kid you don't put much thought into replacing it. Time flies and you got bigger problems in life than digging into the latest and greatest. The most radical act involved is simply listing your gear and placing it on a scale.
A few things will slap you in the face. A few things you'll look at and realize that you put that stuff in because Dad or your scoutmaster always carried that stuff and you haven't used it in a decade. Some things that are in there 'just in case' that it turned out that when that case actually came up you didn't use that thing anyway as it was buried in the bottom of your pack so you just figured it out. That piece of gear that came in really handy on that one trip to that one place six states away that you don't visit and doesn't have any real use in your local area.
Clothing is shockingly heavy... often overlooked and shoved in. UL folks like to pretend they can wear their camp clothes to supplement a lighter bag... not realizing that adding 10 or even 20* to your quilt rating is far far lighter than even one 'sleep shirt'. If you are not already packing the clothing because you need it or really want it... then you don't save anything adding clothing to sleep in. A lot of the 'rules' you hear about are not very accurate or applicable once you really spend time on them. Stuff newbies hear about from a fellow newbie that older hands have tried and discarded once they didn't pan out in the real world.
Many hear UL and think of buying a $400 DCF tarp to shave a pound and dismiss the idea. Most of the heavy lifting is free. It takes a little thought and some time.
Some is obvious (your sleeping bag) and some is a bit convoluted and counter-intuitive (Keeping your bridge but tuning it up).
So... keep going. Write it all down, weigh it all. Stare at it and think about it. Put it all in a box and go camping in the yard or at a car camping site. Reach only for the gear you need. If you don't take it out of the box- then don't put it in your pack. Don't be stupid or reckless. And if your back really hurts sitting there then go ahead and pull out that sit pad or chair you like. If you carry your bourbon in an eight ounce metal flask it probably carries just fine in an empty one ounce plastic pop bottle. But if yer dear ol granpappy gave you that flask on his deathbed and it makes you tear up thinking of leaving it behind then dry yer eyes and tuck the flask back in your pack.
At some point you do hit a wall where you are down to carefully debating an individual piece of gear at a handful of ounces for a handful of Twenties... but you aren't there quite yet. Even then- you can always just stop. That last 10% of cuts is tough. The easy way to handle that is let it go. As stuff wears out you upgrade rather than replace. You aren't looking to build a 5lb base load here, so the psycho end of the UL movement doesn't apply. I'd bet you can easily find 2-5lbs for your $1000 budget fairly easily and be happy enough with that if you go head to toe and look hard. Put a season in, evaluate your gear as you go, and think about what you can do next year. Don't bog down.
PS- 20 new, clean nickels weigh 100 grams. If you're concerned about your scale's accuracy that's a handy way to check.
Originally Posted by BillyBob58
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