Quest for Ultra Lite Hammock System

[Just Bill]

lol I was typing my missive as JB was posting his!

So I guess I'm that UL jerk. OK, I admit I was cringing at the mention of the BA modular system.

To be fair, however, I only "weigh in" when the topic is UL.

Hopefully the tongue in cheekiness came through on my post , just as the straightforward info you provided did.
And you managed to do it without giggling into the keyboard too hard about the BA bag as well

I think we've turned the corner on the UL topic overall, but it can still be a sore subject for some.
On the plus side it is monumentally easier these days than it was a decade ago.

[cmoulder]

To be clear, RR, BMBH and the like (incl some of JB's Towns End) are not technically bridge hammocks—as JB once explained—but spreader bar hammocks.

And although I am not a bridge/spreader bar kinda guy, from what I have seen (and actually tested and used) I really like the way JB handles the spreader bar connection without any hardware and in a superbly simple and elegant way (basically a lasso) that permits the use of either dedicated spreader bars or trekking poles, and can adapt to a range of spreader pole tip diameters. It automatically balances the forces in such a way that there is no (ZERO!) side deflection on the spreader bars, which is the bane of some setups that use plates.

Using (with JB prototype) a dedicated SUL spreader bar tip: ul_spreader_bar_test_03.jpg Using a trekking pole tip: trek_pole_03_small_edited-1.jpg

And this is the handle end of the trekking pole... a Ti toggle inserted into the end... a bit of DIY involved, but not rocket surgery. trek_pole_02a_small.jpg trek_pole_02_small.jpg

[cmoulder]

Hopefully the tongue in cheekiness came through on my post , just as the straightforward info you provided did.
And you managed to do it without giggling into the keyboard too hard about the BA bag as well

I think we've turned the corner on the UL topic overall, but it can still be a sore subject for some.
On the plus side it is monumentally easier these days than it was a decade ago.

Indeed, all in good fun. I'm UL now but I've carried my share of heavy packs over the decades, and there's no more fervent preacher than the sinner saved.

[Just Bill]

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So to answer your trekking pole question I'll reference your first post's pictures.

Here's a bit of a simple disclosure... I don't own a BMBH. I've seen em, layed in one, don't like them. To be fair- I build my own so obviously I have some strong feelings on it.

Not to toot my horn but to express a point; I build the lightest bridges in the world as well as the largest weight capacity bridges available. (I also write the longest posts in the world)
To accomplish both of those goals I've had to learn a lot about making the total bridge system work.

That point being; I am fairly familiar with general bridge structure and how to push that. As a result using a trekking pole in a bridge is always a bit of sketchy proposition. My general rule of thumb is that if you have to ask, the answer is no. It is pretty complicated and I feel the BMBH is a poor candidate for MOST trekking pole conversions due to the design of the bridge itself.

This is even more true if you give it some thought...
I note you don't have trekking poles listed in your current setup. And that you plan to add some 'monopod' type poles?
Do you currently use trekking poles? What do those weigh?

The often used Mountainsmith FX poles weigh 10.5 ounces EACH.
That is 21 ounces for the pole set now.

An average trekking pole pair is about 16 ounces... so you pick up 5 ounces of trekking poles, plus some adapter weight, to save 8 ounces of spreader bars and you're 'down' 1.5-2.5 ounces in weight now.
This assumes that you actually like hiking with the Trekker FX pole better than your current pole.
And it assumes that they work just as well.

Are there other solutions regarding trekking poles... sure. But assuming you will use the trekking poles for actual hiking; the bigger question is can the poles you actually like work as a spreader?
'Upgrading' to a heavy duty trekking pole to shave 2 ounces off your sleep system means you need to haul around crappy trekking poles ALL DAY. A set of poles that is hard to swing or annoying to use for their primary purpose on trail will wear you out and frustrate you much more deeply than the lingering few ounces of spreader bar on your spreadsheet.

That said- here's the specs on the website which I assume apply to your model:
Deluxe Hammock (Body, Bug Net): 26.7 ounces (0.757 kg)
Hammock End Straps and Tri-Glide Set: 4.3 ounces (0.122 kg)
Spreader Bars: 8 ounces (0.227 kg)
Total: 39 ounces (1.1 kg)

As others mentioned and you noted- new webbing and other systems exist to get your suspension of choice in the 2 ounce or less range. But that applies to any hammock really and is an easy upgrade to make.


Back to the pictures above... I would take that metal ring and cut it off.
I assume that the rings and webbing that form the suspension triangle are part of the 26.7 ounces listed.
I assume it's a heavy webbing and likely weighs a few ounces on it's own.

More importantly- that's the portion of the bridge 'in your way' for making either a ridgerunner trekking pole conversion kit or a Carbon fiber conversion on the BMBH.
You can't do anything about the poles until you resolve the current system on the BMBH, so if you're not willing to do that probably nothing to discuss on my end.

All credit to the Jacks for producing the BMBH in the first place, but there are several dated design features there regarding suspension.
Chop off the ring and you can direct attach to the webbing loops on the bridge body itself. If you are a bit nervous about that, you can chop off the webbing dogbones and keep the ring or consult with the Don at Jacks.

Attaching amsteel (or dynaglide) dogbones directly to the bridge (or the ring) will allow you to use a more common 'tent pole' tip (or the tips in the RR kit) more easily.
This is similar to the 'Update' to the Ridgerunner which is now 'hardware free' regarding the suspension.

Just this modification would likely save you 1-3 ounces on the BMBH itself.

From there... you could then use a Carbon Fiber pole if you are under 200lbs. If not- then an Easton Aluminum pole could be used.
All I can tell you there- my 36" CF poles weigh 5.5 ounces. As a guess, maybe 5 ounces (or a hair under )for the approximately 31" or so set of poles you'd need.
Keeping in mind the suspension bears on the inset of the notch and on the ring, so the roughly 32" pole is probably a 30-31" in a 'tip to tip' style setup.

Again... another 3 ounces or so here for a solid set of dedicated, bridge specific spreader bars if you can go Carbon Fiber. ($90 or so)

So 4-6 ounces off that current rig total roughly if you stop there. If you are still considering trekking poles:

It is true you will find posts from others here about trekking pole conversions. I would pay attention to the ones from Grizz or WV.
But as far as my position on trekking poles goes here it is.

What I tell everyone (buying my stuff or anothers):

If you don't use trekking poles now- don't add them to your system. Adding stuff to your system is adding stuff. Even with my extremely SUL custom carbon fiber options... still weighs more to add trekking poles to your kit than simply use the bridge spreader bars.

If you do use trekking poles now and like them- consider saving the weight of ONE spreader bar.

Trekking poles break often enough when used as intended. If you snap a pole walking- you just ruined your bridge.

If you stress, torque, fall on, or stumble on your trekking pole... are you interested in inspecting it each night prior to use to ensure that it can function as a spreader bar?
Are you comfortable determining if a trekking pole that seems okay might not have a hairline fracture you can't see? Are you qualified to?
With Carbon Fiber... hard to tell if you have slid badly across a rock or gotten a decent scratch that may cause a failure.
What happens if that otherwise fine for walking around trekking pole fails as a spreader bar that is inches from your head?

And now that I mentioned all that stuff: are you going to spend all night frozen in terror waiting for the impending explosion of trekking pole until the jagged splinter of pole shaft lodges into your brain?

My bridges are designed to reduce load on spreader bars so I can use lighter spreader bars than others. Even so... good UL gear is about balance... not just grams.

It is reasonable to assume an UL trekking pole could break.
It is also reasonable to assume that you could simply leave them both leaning against the shelter wall as many do.
But it's also reasonable to assume that given a reasonably sized person (200lbs or less) you probably are not going to cause a PROPERLY installed trekking pole to fail as a spreader in a bridge.

SO a little horse trading is in order to resolve this desire to save weight but stay safe.
If a spreader fails at the foot end of a bridge... risk of injury is low.
A bar failing at your head end is a bigger risk... one most would consider an unneeded risk (stupid light) so lets designate one spreader bar there for safety.

That covers you both in the case that you break a trekking pole on the trail... or if you forget your trekking pole set completely.
While using only one spreader bar in a bridge isn't awesome... it's manageable if you only have an UQ.
If you have a pad- you can always go to ground.

The only time I'd not take at least one spreader bar is for an FKT (record attempt).

Back in the real world where odds are good that nothing will fail and you will remember to grab your trekking poles if you stop for an ice cream cone;

What you do get out of this deal is a dedicated spreader bar for the head of your bridge, a trekking pole for the foot end, and a spare trekking pole to use for a pole mod or porch mode on your tarp. You don't actually take anything away but actually add function. Safety, redundancy against failure and a bonus feature while still saving weight is the real UL win when everything is working well.

So back to you...
Do you weigh less than 200 pounds?

Do you currently use trekking poles and what model do you use?

Before you can talk trekking poles or carbon fiber spreaders- are you willing to modify your BMBH ?

Even after all that- please realize that you're probably just horse trading 8-16 ounces or so going down this road. Some of it is cheap, some of it not.

Again- this is the fine tuning of the Bridge itself.
Worth a look no doubt but your biggest impact remains your Big Three items above (pad, insulation, shelter).
In your first post- you mentioned 2-3 pounds.

The next pound or so is doable but I would probably let the dust settle (financially and on the spreadsheet) with those first three items before you go looking too hard at the bridge itself.
But if you can splice and your season is over, you can start working on the bridge now and consider the CF spreader bar upgrade while dodging the whole trekking pole mess too.

The pound after that is what gets expensive, difficult and at times requires some real gram weenie whacking that many here find obscene.

[cmc4free]

To be clear, RR, BMBH and the like (incl some of JB's Towns End) are not technically bridge hammocks—as JB once explained—but spreader bar hammocks.

I remember reading the post you linked to, but I didn't have the same take on it re RR, BMBH, Towns End not being bridges. My understanding was that those are all bridge hammocks by definition. Am I mistaken?

"A bridge hammock uses the same principal as a suspension bridge to provide the structure:
The poles act as the towers or struts that carry the suspension cables. They are fully load bearing.
For the primary suspension cables; You can use either a rolled web edge (Pretty much everyone) or an amsteel in channel edge (Grizz and most of mine)."

"The Bear Mountain Bridge Hammock is named after a famous suspension bridge after all... and that basic principal is found in Jacks, Warbonnet, Bic, Grizz, WV, and my stuff too.
We all more or less make a suspension bridge based design structurally speaking."

In that post, I thought Bill was mostly talking about the woven rope (Pawleys Island) type as a "spreader bar hammock" and the REI Quarter Dome being somewhat difficult to classify.

[Just Bill]

To be clear, RR, BMBH and the like (incl some of JB's Towns End) are not technically bridge hammocks—as JB once explained—but spreader bar hammocks.

Excellent visual aides and thank you!

Feels bad correcting an otherwise very helpful post BUT guessing it was a simple mistake-
The BMBH, RR and my stuff (plus Bic, Grizz, WV, etc) are ALL bridge hammocks. (suspension bridge)
A spreader bar hammock is a spreader bar hammock.
The REI bridge is neither a spreader bar hammock nor a (suspension) bridge hammock.
Though I could perhaps call it a TRUSS bridge hammock.

It is quite nerdy and even debatable I suppose so again an easy thing to stumble over for all of us.

You can use the darn thing in the field and that counts fer much more than any technicalities or typos.


EDIT- LOL double corrected... sorry young man.

[cmoulder]

Sorry, clearly I misunderstood!

[cmc4free]

I second that it's not a super-important distinction in practical terms, and in no way was I intending to be nitpicky. Mainly I was just curious if my own understanding was mistaken.

[Just Bill]

I second that it's not a super-important distinction in practical terms, and in no way was I intending to be nitpicky. Mainly I was just curious if my own understanding was mistaken.

Well then, The 'Aye's' have it and the motion carries. Pass the flask and back to business.

Sometimes Just Bill types too much and it's just plain confussin'.

[cmoulder]

Well then, The 'Aye's' have it and the motion carries. Pass the flask and back to business.

Sometimes Just Bill types too much and it's just plain confussin'.

OK, now you've gone and reminded me that I forgot my Jack Daniel's last night. The campfire and cigar were good, though.

And I drove over Bear Mountain Bridge on the way home this morning. It is a suspension bridge.