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  1. #1
    Member fullcount's Avatar
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    Chameleon and pad question

    Been using one of the original JRB BMBH with a Neo Air pad in the sleeve as my bottom insulation for years and love the flat lay / no shoulder squeeze sleep I get in this hammock. However, heavy system. Relooking at a gathered end system once again to try lightening the load and came across the Chameleon. Still want to use my Neo Air and a BA 15 degree bag that wraps the back onto the pad (so the bag and pad stay connected) Anyone had any experience trying to lay on a diagonal with a pad set up? Good. Bad? Can you stay on a diagonal thru the night?

    I am a side sleeper, so I am worried about going back to a GE hammock. But I like the flexibility of either a bug net or a winter top cover based on the hiking conditions. I do most of my hiking in the fall, winter and spring when it is cool outside. Thanks in advance for your replies.

  2. #2
    Senior Member hutzelbein's Avatar
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    Pads don't work well in GE hammocks. Unless you don't mind cold shoulders and hips, you're either going to need a wider pad, a second pad that you can put perpendicular under the main pad, or at least a partial underquilt. All of these solutions would probably negate some of the weight savings you get when exchanging the bridge for a gathered end.

    Have you looked into 90° hammocks? A Cross Hammock would save you a lot of weight while allowing you to keep the pad. Side sleeping is not a problem - it actually works better than in a bridge in my opinion. The Versatility model has a detachable bug net. I'm sure you could talk the maker into sewing you a top cover.

    Alternatively you could get at a Ridgerunner plus Spindrift sock and exchange the aluminium poles for carbon poles.

  3. #3
    Member fullcount's Avatar
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    Thank you Hutzelbein. Novel approach and I had seen something like this several years back. I will do a little more homework and see if I can find a storm proof tarp system that would work with this cross lay. Watched a few YouTube videos after you sent me the link - all of them in German.

    I have this long spreadsheet developed where I am looking at different systems, evaluating cost and measuring grams. When I look at hammocks, I am taking into account the complete sleep system (TQ / UQ - sleeping bag, pad, suspension, etc...) I did look at the Warbonnet Ridge Runner with the Spindrift sock and Superfly. This system is weighing in at 9.038 lbs. My current BMBH is coming in at 9.1 lbs. Not a whole lot of saving. If I swapped out to carbon fiber poles, this may save me about 6 ounces.

    The Sierra Madre Research Stratos System is modular and has the least weight of those evaluated coming in at 7.38 lbs. I came across the Chameleon and have not completed my evaluation, but wanted to first check diagonal lay in this unit (since it is modular).

    Goal is to shed 3 lbs from my base weight. Just looking at options. I love my JRB BMBH and would love to find a way to modify my trekking poles to eliminate the spreader bars, but once again, that would only save me 9 ounces. The JRB Ultralite does not have a bug screen, so it will not qualify in my search.

    Any help is appreciated and I will get back to you this evening on the search for a storm shelter that would work with the Cross Hammock.

  4. #4
    all secure in sector 7 Shug's Avatar
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    For sure pads can be used in a hammock. I did for a couple of years before I went with a UQ.
    Some videos on the subject for some insight if you want to peruse.
    Shug





    Whooooo Buddy)))) All Secure in Sector Seven

  5. #5
    Senior Member hutzelbein's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fullcount View Post
    Thank you Hutzelbein. Novel approach and I had seen something like this several years back. I will do a little more homework and see if I can find a storm proof tarp system that would work with this cross lay. Watched a few YouTube videos after you sent me the link - all of them in German.
    Yes, the maker is German and a one-person-business. As far as I know he doesn't advertise his hammocks. Probably for reasons of capacity. The Cross Hammock is fairly similar to the Hammock Tent (a Swiss maker), but fully geared towards pad use. There is no pad sleeve, but the pad is held in place by end caps. This eliminates issues with air gaps and saves some weight, but you lie directly on the pad.

    Quote Originally Posted by fullcount View Post
    The Sierra Madre Research Stratos System is modular and has the least weight of those evaluated coming in at 7.38 lbs.
    I have a couple of products from Sierra Madre Research, and I cannot recommend any. Everything I bought came with big promises and seriously under-delivered. The Ninox hammock was the last item I purchased - and it will remain so. They have some interesting ideas, but don't put in enough time and effort to develop something useful. Depending on why you were looking at their gear, there are other, better gear makers.

    Also be aware that weight savings come at a cost in gathered end hammocks. In order to save weight, the only thing you can do is to make the hammock smaller (shorter and/or narrower) and/or use lighter fabrics. With all other things equal, small hammocks tend to be more uncomfortable than big ones. Especially when you are coming from a bridge hammock. And lighter fabrics mean less robustness and more stretch. More stretch means a more curved lay. Which is likely not what you want when trying to sleep on your side.

    Quote Originally Posted by fullcount View Post
    Any help is appreciated and I will get back to you this evening on the search for a storm shelter that would work with the Cross Hammock.
    Did you see that he sells a winter tarp?

  6. #6
    New Member doman's Avatar
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    I am the manufacturer of the Cross Hammock. Unfortunately, I have not yet managed to participate here regularly. It is like @hutzelbein puts it. The Cross Hammock is especially designed for the use of pads and a very lightweight hammock solution. My whole winter setup (Cross Hammock, Thermarest Neo Air XTherm Max Large, MYOG down sleeping bag, MYOG DCF tarp) weighs less than 4 lb. And yes I offer a winter tarp with doors that fits exactly for the Cross Hammock.
    190223-2190732.jpg
    Last edited by doman; 11-20-2019 at 17:45.

  7. #7
    Member fullcount's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shug View Post
    For sure pads can be used in a hammock. I did for a couple of years before I went with a UQ.
    Some videos on the subject for some insight if you want to peruse.
    Shug





    Thanks Shug,

    I may have watched one of these videos in the past and this gives me an inclination that I could do it once again.

    I tried the UQ with the JRB BMBH and found two issues. One was that without a pad, I had big time shoulder squeeze. The other, is the bulk of carrying both a sleeping bag and a UQ was tough to manage. Several years ago, I went to a Go-Lite Jam 50 pack as the start of my quest to lighten the load. Side benefit was that if I could not fit it in this pack, it did not need to be there. So extra bulk is monitored also.

    The shoulder squeeze issue almost prompted a return of the BMBH, but once I placed the NeoAir in the sleeve, it spread the hammock out, improved the flat lay and since I am a warm sleeper anyway, I could take the system down to 20F and still get a good nights rest. Thus, I am a pad believer and due to bulk, trying to get away from going full tilt with an underquilt. But who knows, maybe I will go over to that system at one point. The other benefit with a pad is that in addition to backpacking, I am a touring cyclist, and sometimes I have no trees to hang from and a pad is essential if going to the ground.

  8. #8
    Member fullcount's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by doman View Post
    I am the manufacturer of the Cross Hammock. Unfortunately, I have not yet managed to participate here regularly. It is like @hutzelbein puts it. The Cross Hammock is especially designed for the use of pads and a very lightweight hammock solution. My whole winter setup (Cross Hammock, Thermarest Neo Air XTherm Max Large, MYOG down sleeping bag, MYOG DCF tarp) weighs less than 4 lb. And yes I offer a winter tarp with doors that fits exactly for the Cross Hammock.
    190223-2190732.jpg
    Thanks for chiming in Doman. Like the way your hammock looks, but would want to see a tarp system that covered the two ends in case of blowing rain. One of the videos that I saw showed someone pulling on the head end whoopie slings and making a pillow on the head end. Did not know those individual lines were adjustable.

  9. #9
    Member fullcount's Avatar
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    Since my quest is larger than what could be seen in the Dutchware sub section, I have opened a new thread in the General Hammock section, titled Quest for Ultra Lite Hammock System.

    Doman and Huzelbein, thank you for your help.

  10. #10
    New Member doman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fullcount View Post
    Thanks for chiming in Doman. Like the way your hammock looks, but would want to see a tarp system that covered the two ends in case of blowing rain. One of the videos that I saw showed someone pulling on the head end whoopie slings and making a pillow on the head end. Did not know those individual lines were adjustable.
    Thanks for your answer @fullcount. The winter tarp I designed for the Cross Hammock protects the whole setup very well against heavy wind and rain. I post a picture that shows this function in the new thread you opened. And yes, you can easily adjust the headrest of the Cross Hammock while laying in it. Sacki shows this in his video. But it is also described in the FAQ section of my site.

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