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  1. #11
    cougarmeat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
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    Bend, OR
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    WBBB, WBRR, WL LiteOwl
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    Did you feel the cold from the top or the bottom? Is your hammock Double Layer? How tall are you?

    You are at the edge of your current insulation's ratings. Some like to keep a 10 degree "cushion" so I use a 20 degree bag until it gets a little below 30 degrees, then I grab "the big dog" (0 degree gear). If you closer to 5' 6" than 6", a ¾ length UQ is almost full length for you. You can always put some Reflexit (mentioned above) or other pad near the foot end.

    Because you said put the inflatable inside your sleeping bag to keep the pad from shifting, I'm guessing you have a single layer Hammock. Rather than the inflatable, I'd go for an UQP but I know you don't want to buy any more gear. I'm concerned that your pad is interfering with the UQ and without an UQP, you might have gaps - so many parts in your setup.

    Then there's the clothes issue. Some advocate less sleeping clothes. There is less constriction. I wear light cotton pajamas - feels good after a hard day on the trail. But if I'm getting down to single digit temperatures - even the 20's - I'd have a balaclava with me for my head/face. I might even add a light, synthetic, sleeping jacket - but that's only when it is way below 20 degrees.

    Is there anyway you can test some systems out before the trip - 4 days is a commitment with gear that might not work. You don't even need it to be that cold at home; you'll be testing combinations and hopefully clearly feel it when you've found the winner.

    You didn't mention your tarp. How well were you covered? does the tarp have doors? did you stake it down low at bedtime?

    Will there be snow? With snow - it's your friend; it's your buddy - you can use a shovel and/or snow saw and create a 3 sided area with snow walls/berms to keep the wind draft at bay..

    The last thing - sort of my rant - is all that insulation and ratings are not making heat - you have to make the heat. If you are not generating heat - the insulation has nothing to ... insulate. So that might suggest attention to what/when you have to eat before you go to bed.

    Once I had to spend some winter months sleeping in my station wagon. When born, I was a premie at 7 months and was put in an incubator - glass and metal all around. So when I lay in the station wagon, looking up at the ceiling and windows - it was like MOM! It was also interesting to see the frost on the INSIDE of the car in the morning. I soon learned that if my body didn't make heat at night, there was nothing for the sleeping bag to hold in. You can't be passive (too yin) about this.

    You can add heat - with hot water bottles, those hand/pocket warmers (be careful, some leak and make a mess). But better if you figure out what evening meal will add the calories and digestion that will assist your body in making its own heat.
    Last edited by cougarmeat; 11-03-2019 at 19:19.
    In order to see what few have seen, you must go where few have gone. And DO what few have done.

  2. #12
    TxAggie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2016
    Location
    Pasadena, MD
    Hammock
    Half-wit (3 season), Chameleon (win
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    Superfly, Thunderf
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    EE Revelation 20*,
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    Whoopie!
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    1,597
    How old is your sleeping bag? If it’s synthetic and over 10 years old, they do tend to degrade and lose their rating much quicker than down. Also, many mass produced companies aren’t as conservative with their temperature ratings. Many list their ratings as “survivable” while most of the common cottage vendors you see on the forums leave a little more buffer for their lower temperature ratings. For example, I’ve had my EE 20° topquilt down to right at 222 and still been comfortable, however I’ve been very chilly in a 30° rated bag at 34°.


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  3. #13
    GilligansWorld's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2016
    Location
    Fort Collins, Colorado
    Hammock
    DIY 12' 1.6 oz Hyper D Baby
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    DIY 12' RSBTR kit
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jharpphoto View Post
    ......... Thanks for the links and suggestions @gilligans world
    Very welcome - DM me if you have other questions about how I made that stuff or what I did to boost my results down to freezing using the set-ups I linked too.
    The winter camp video outlines the second hang I ever did with my reflectix pad and my wool blanket - If memory serves me temps got down below freezing and I was right at the edge of how cold I could go. I did have a 0 down sleeping bag for top cover however and that may have been my saving grace.

    Might I suggest - if you had a little bit of time was to find a synthetic sleeping bag that was rated down to about 0* on the cheap(er) side. With minimal sewing skills and minimal cost you could buy a roll of groisgain at walmart and sew loops on the sides of the bag - buy some shock cord and run it through the loops and you now have a primary suspension. Hit the office supply isle and buy a pack of the pinch clips that are on the 1.5" side and use these to "pin" up the ends of the bag so you don't have air gaps and I think you can hobble through this hang.

    Anyhow hit my DM up if you want.


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    Last edited by GilligansWorld; 11-03-2019 at 19:26. Reason: Correction
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  4. #14
    New Member
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    Jun 2011
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    Marietta,ga
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    Quote Originally Posted by goobie View Post
    Surprised nobody has asked yet. What clothes are you sleeping in? Loose fitting clothing, worn only in the hammock, is a must for staying warm in the cold. Less is definitely more in cold temps.
    Usually wear long johns

  5. #15
    I would suggest getting a wool blanket

  6. #16
    Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2017
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    castle rock colorado
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    wb/dutch/dh
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    I agree that the sleeping pad conflicts with the Uq and could cause drafts. I think your idea of using the sol blanket is good because it will trap the warm air that your body makes, however, you must ventilate Before you get to hot. Use a pad under your feet and If you have some boot liners, like the ones found in sorels, wear them to bed. Make sure you have clothes specifically for sleeping, don't wear the clothes you hiked in. you might want to bring some of those gel hand warmers just in case. Since you are backpacking you have to be creative about the gear you use; "multifunctional" is the key. Good luck!

  7. #17
    New Member
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    Jun 2011
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    Marietta,ga
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    A lot of great ideas here so I’ll be doing some research on my options. Thanks everyone.

  8. #18
    New Member
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    Jun 2011
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    Marietta,ga
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    One of my camp mates offered his 0 degree bag for this trip. I think that might just solve all my problems.

  9. #19
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2017
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    SE PA
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    SLD Trail Lair(s)
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    When you got cold was it windy? It makes a big difference in my experience. If wind is predicted for your next trip consider adding an underquilt protector. I find it really helps with wind and it’s not heavy. It won’t fix a poor set up but will help keep the drafts from robbing heat from under you.
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  10. #20
    Senior Member BillyBob58's Avatar
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    Tupelo, MS
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jharpphoto View Post
    I’m going out with friends for 4 nights soon. Forecast has temps dropping to 21F one night. The last time I camped at this temp I froze my butt off. I have a warbonnet BB with. 20 degree warbonnet yeti 3/4 UQ, a wiggys sleeping bag rated to 20 and an inflatable sleeping pad I put inside the sleeping bag to prevent it from moving around. With those 3 items I was on the verge of hypothermia. I’m considering pitting a SOL thermal survival bag inside the sleeping bag as well or trying to use an old sleeping bag for a makeshift additional UQ. Any other suggestions to keep a little more comfortable at night?
    Quote Originally Posted by Jharpphoto View Post
    On the first trip I didn’t have any condensation issues. I know there is the potential for moisture with the SOL and realize it isn’t a perfect solution
    Did you tell us at what temps you were cold? Are you an extremely cold sleeper? ( what is the temp rating of the Wiggy's bag?) Was your head well insulated like it would be inside the hood of a mummy bag? Were you using the bag as a top quilt and suffering drafts? Were you cold all over, just on top or was your back/butt cold? Was the wind well blocked by a tarp? ( that - wind - can be HUGE, it can suck the warmed up air right out of any quilt or bag)

    I ask all that because because that is one truck load of insulation to be used at any likely temps in GA, if that is where you were camping. If the temps were 20F, that WB UQ alone should have got you by if all was working perfectly(perfectly adjusted with no gaps or drafts, no moisture in the down, etc). And if you were inside a synthetic Wiggy's sleeping bag, which does not compress as much as down, you should have picked up a few more degrees of back warmth from that.

    Was the pad insulated, or just an air mattress? If insulated, depending on the R value or thickness of the pad of course, the pad alone should have kept you warm at 20f, or at least warmer than whatever the UQ alone would give you. That is assuming that the bag did not interfere with the fit of the UQ, unlikely if the pad was inside the bag, unless it was really wide maybe. But even if it did interfere with the fit of the quilt reducing the warmth of the quilt, there is no way the UQ could make the insulated pad less effective. And most likely, that UQ would add at least a few degrees to the pad, and if all was working just right, it would add an extra 40 degrees or more additional warmth to the pad. Of course, if the pad is not insulated, it might have just made things worse.

    But bottom line, for whatever mysterious reason, you were nearly hypothermic in insulation that I would bet would keep me toasty well below 20F. And if that was a warm insulate pad, below zero, at least on bottom. The top warmth would be limited by the bags rating.

    So, what went wrong? I have no idea. But re: your "SOL thermal survival bag inside the sleeping bag ": I agree that you are risking moisture problems inside the SOL bag. However, I think it is potentially, unless you can come up with a below zero rated TQ + UQ, it is without question the best thing you could do. You might end up a little damp inside the bag, but damp or even soaking wet does not = cold, in fact it can = much warmer. I might sound stark, raving mad to you at the moment, but stop and consider: they are probably not getting away with calling them "survival bags" if they are killing folks with hypothermia, right? At the very least, the bad reviews would be through the roof. I bet in fact you can find reports where they have literally saved lives.

    Think of what happens in their product's typical survival scenario. Some one is caught in the cold wind and rain and can not bail out quickly. They have no shelter, they are wet and the wind chill- even though maybe only 40F- is literally killing them. So they wrap up in these blankets, and the wind is 100% blocked. Their clothes might already be soaked, so no real concern if they put out some more body moisture into the soaked clothes, that is irrelevant. These blankets are reflective, so some few degrees of extra warmth is gained when this source of heat loss is reduced. And finally, a big one: these (space) blankets are vapor barriers(VBs). This will reduce or stop evil evaporative cooling. The method your body uses to cool you down once you soak your cotton clothing on a hot summer day. Evaporative cooling is how air conditioners and swamp coolers work. If you stop that, you have a major boost in warmth for very little cost, weight or bulk.

    But wait, that's not all! ( sales pitch ). Your body constantly puts out moisture, either in the form of sweat or insensible perspiration which ends up evaporating off of your skin, then it is replaced by more which evaporates again, on and on. This liquid sweat, or vapor after evaporation, then moseys right on out into whatever insulation you are wearing or sleeping in. The sweat soaked up by your down or synthetic sponge is already liquid water. If the vapor contacts the dew point before it exits your bag/quilt shell, it condenses to water or ice. Inside your insulation. Obviously, this significantly and steadily reduces the efficiency of your insulation, most especially untreated down. Just because you did not notice any condensation on your previous near hypothermic night, does NOT mean that there was no condensation inside your insulation, between the inner and outer shell of your bag. It happens quite a bit, mostly unnoticed on shorter trips. Or when there is plenty of sunshine for drying out.

    It just dawned on me that good old Shug has a video proving this point, one of his DIY Pea Pod videos. The next morning, as he spreads the layers of quilts apart, right there in the middle of the very breathable quilts is a nice layer of frost. IOW, ice. His evaporated insensible perspiration, on it's journey outward towards the cold air, has condensed in the middle of his quilts and turned to ice. If I can figure out which video that is, I will link to it. But here is the thing: if he had ha just a big, thick minus 20 rated quilt, he probably would never have known that he had this condensation deep inside his breathable quilts.

    So, you should definitely consider this SOL blanket, though I greatly prefer VB clothing. I can wear all my clothing over VB clothing. But here is he trick you must be aware of so that this does not actually make you colder: any thing worn inside the SOL survival blanket it( that is totally not breathable, right? It is a VB?) or any other VB may end up slightly damp or our right wet. Especially if the VB is also the outside COLD layer(condensation happens on cold surfaces, right?) So of you are going to use that SOL bag, it would be best not to wear very much inside it. Synthetic long johns being best, best to layer most of your extra clothing over you, outside the SOL blanket/bag. You can likely get away with some clothing inside the SOL, as long as there is good insulation around the SOL, keeping it warmer(less condensation). But just remember: any thing you put on the skin side of a VB is at risk to get wet. If you over heat and sweat, that sweat a'int going nowhere except into whatever insulation is inside the SOL So, it is safer to minimize that. But also remember: wet- when inside insulation and as long as the wet can not get to your main insulation- does not equal cold! In fact, it might actually equal much warmer, even if it feels unpleasantly clammy or humid or even wet. But all 3 of those beat shivering hands down, in my book. ( and yes, if you can layer another bag over what you have, it will help, VB or no VB)

    Can you experiment before your trip? Go outside in your bag or just clothing, and get cold. Then add the SOL over your clothing(or inside your bag). If you get warmer, you have your answer. If you do this testing, please let us know how it works for you.

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