Was looking into UP insulation and just saw this video from Cedar Ridge. I have a couple of down quilts from CR, and they are fantastic...so it looks like an UP quilt is in my future too. They do talk a little about the weight (and price) difference at the end of the video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SrI5...reIkSyHGE00lC8
I don't get it. Who's going to get their down this wet in the first place. I guess you could always plan for the worst case but this would totally eliminate the purchasing of down. I've backpacked for many years and this has never happened to me so I guess I'll stick with down.
Great test! Does UP have any moisture handling benefits compared to the older synthetic installations like Climashield and Primaloft? I have had pretty good field results with the Climashield, or it's older cousin Polarguard, in wet conditions.
Really surprised at the treated down staying that dry.
Yeah, if this also translated to how fog/moisture/body vapor affects down that would be great. But I'm not sure it does. Maybe? That's all I'm worried about, getting all that dampness around me on a cold winter night. I like to think the treated down helps, but in the end I think it's a battle I'll always lose short of a full vapor barrier suit.Originally Posted by TrailSlug
I think they did it more to show the catastrophic case or for those in *really* humid areas.
That said, when looking for a new quilt, the price vs performance make UP a pretty attractive option even with the weight penalty. I'll be taking a 3-week river trip through the Grand Canyon next year, and I plan to have a 40* UP top quilt with me.
Well, it is that endless debate of down vs synthetic in wet conditions. Though many people have never had problems, we also have some folks around here that have reported problems with out their down ever getting subjected to anything as severe as this test. In fact, problems occurring simply from condensation, without any rain eve contacting their outer shell. And of course, historically many a problem has been reported. But most folks, most of the time, especially on the shorter trips and/or trips with plenty of sunshine for drying, are never going to have any problem. But I have seen some friends have issues on week long trips, several times. I never had significant or any problems 2 of those trips, once using down and once using synthetic. But one time I measure loft on a Marmot bag after a 1 week trip, and the 7" of loft was down well over an inch. That bag never got any external moisture on the shell.
But, the treated down looks very promising, if not as bomb proof as the UP, especially after squeezing out.
In this video, Cedar Ridge mentions that the UP quilt is 10 oz heavier than the down quilt. I don't find such large weight difference between similarly rated down and Climashield quilts, maybe an oz or 2 at most. But, I do find- though just as warm- the CS quilts are usually thinner. For example, an AHE Jardidge conservatively rated at 25F will probably not be as thick as a down quilt with the same rating. But those quilts in the video look about the same thickness. I wonder if they are really equally warm, or if the UP quilt is not actually warmer? Of course, I don't know if warmer when thinner applies to UP insulation as I have found it does for other synthetics.
Lastly, this video demonstrates something I have been bringing up for a few years, but which usually draws little interest, or maybe a claim that I have it wrong. To wit: I have long been claiming that maintaining loft when wet- or keeping dry- is even more important in UQs than TQs. If you get your TQ damp and lose 25% of the loft, then it will still lay down on top of you and you might still be warm enough if not too close to it's rating.
But lose 25% of the loft in an UQ, and it might not be able to loft up enough to contact your back, thus causing a gap. In which case you will be outright cold even if a bit above the quilts rating. In addition to that, with a Climashield UQ- not only will it loose less loft when wet, and not only can it be squeezed out like UP, but the CS is commonly sewn to the inner dif cut shell which is snugged up against your back, and then lofts away from the back, lofting towards the ground. Even if it did lose some loft, it would still be next to your back, with no gaps. Seems to me. Though, of course, being sewn to the inner shell will not apply to this UP insulation, which is placed in a quilt pretty much like down. Sewing to the inner shell would only apply to something like the CS in a Jarbidge, or with my CS Yeti.
Haven't you had some loft issues, even without subjecting your down to anything as severe as this test? If so, did you have treated down? Obviously VBs solve a lot of these issues, but treated down might help a lot. The treated down in this test certainly did better.
BillyBob, I didn't want to "quote" your post - but I know you have a good memory, so I reckon you'll recall a story from Chesapeake, where he accidentally left his treated down gear out at home, exposed to a rainstorm. If I'm remembering correctly, he was really pleased with how easy it was to dry it out. Maybe I can find that post...
https://www.hammockforums.net/forum/...it-to-the-test!
I've slept in a complete fog out and while my quilts did get damp they still worked just fine. On longer hikes I've had to take "sun" breaks to dry out the quilts which works fine and the quilts dry out faster than expected. The way I view it, if through hikers on the Appalachian trail which is considered a very wet trail can use down then it should work in 99% of all other areas just fine.
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