As others have said, the Incubator (full length underquilt) would be the recommended quilt since you're starting out. Our Phoenix is primarily designed for ultralight backpackers who hike long distances and have the other accessories necessary to keep you warm underneath (small sit pad at the foot end or a down jacket at the end). If you have any additional questions, feel free to reach out to us! Our contact info is in my signature.Originally Posted by Bobonli
This ^^^^
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I bought a 20° Phoenix, sold it days later. Probably a year later I bought another one...sold it again. Three tries would have been insane, so I gave up on trying to "make it work". I just like the full length.
I am in the camp of full length for 30* and below. I don't actually own a 30*, but my UQs above that rating are 3/4 and below that rating they're full length.
My first UQ was a Phoenix 20 from Dutch, liked it so much I gave it to my son and bought a custom 20° Phoenix/Burrow set directly from HG for myself and ordered my son his own Burrow. All Premiums.
That UQ is probably still my favorite piece of gear. It sees probably 85/90% of all my use. I use it for everything down to just below freezing, when I switch to a 0° Econ Incubator/Econ Burrow set.
If I was to start again, knowing what I know now about how warm/cold I sleep and the locations/weather conditions I most frequently backpack and camp, I'd probably go with a 30° Phoenix and 10° Incubator, both Premiums.
All together, I have 4 Premium/3 Econs. The Econs are a nice enough, in fact, not too long ago they would've been considered "premium" gear. I've just found that, for me, the benefits of the premium, out weigh the cost.
Good Luck and Have Fun shopping and experimenting!
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My first UQ was an HG 3/4 20* Phoenix. I used it extensively for a couple of years, but finally decided that I was only comfortable using a 20* 3/4 quilt down to about 30* F. I tried the sit pad in the foot box, but that didn't really help my feet stay warm. So now, if the overnight low is expected to be lower than 30* F, I just use my 0* Incubator.
"A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds." Ralph Waldo Emerson
It is all personal preference, and as you can see most(all?) responding so far prefer full length. And that might be what you should do.
But as per usual, I tend to fit into the minority group. I lean towards partial length, especially on gathered end(GE) hammocks. This is not a strong preference, just food for thought. I have had good results with full length at least one time using a JRB MW4(0F) on a GE WBBB, at 18F with a lot of wind chill(poor tap coverage using my cheap WM or HF tarp like I leave up in my back yard, couldn't close any doors, could not get into a sheltered spot, etc). But I was fine all night. And using my full length MW3 or MW4 UQs has always worked perfectly on my bridge hammocks, from head to heel. The big positive is that in that bridge, there is never any part of me that won't be insulated by the UQ no matter how much I change position or what position I am in. I don't have to be concerned with keeping the leg/foot pad under me if I move in my sleep. Not that that has been a problem for me, but it is nice to not even have to think about it. Based on many threads that have appeared here over the years, that- not having any cold spots- might not be as guaranteed with GE hammocks, especially with full length UQs.
But, I have also done just fine with with my torso or 3/4 length UQs. Since I have been plenty warm back, butt, legs and feet below 20F sleeping(only once) on full length pads, I have no expectation that a foot pad would ever fail to keep me warm enough at any temps. Ducttape has used pads to minus 22F, and been warm. 509-T203-KG has been plenty warm at minus 10F plus wind chill(no tarp) using a Neoair X-therm in a bridge hammock. Shug often speaks of using his Thermarest sit pad inside his TQ footbox with his DIY 30F an JRB 0F short UQs (or really I think he does that with whatever he uses), without problems. And we know the kind of temps he routinely hangs in!So bottom line, I see no reason to think that a foot pad is not going to keep me as warm as an UQ. And so far, sleeping into the 20s anyway, there have been no issues for me or my son, using either a torso length synthetic Yeti or a shorter JRB. But, when changing position, you will have to put some effort to make sure the pad is under your new position.
I bet some folks get condensation on their pad, since the part that is not directly under you will be ice cold. But as I so often sleep in VB socks, that is never an issue for me. Or, if the pad is kept warm the way Shug does- inside the TQ- as he attests there should be no condensation. I bet that also helps keep the pad in place!
I also suspect that it is easier to get shorter UQs functioning at full efficiency, with less likelihood of cold spots. I think there are maybe extra challenges once you try to lay your body diagonal across the UQ, with feet maybe pushing out on one side, head or shoulders on the other. But, I might be wrong about that.
When Brandon at WB first came out with that short Yeti, I asked him why he did not go full length. He said he had noticed a tendency of full length UQs to- if feet were to the RT side, to fall away on the left side. ( I have noticed the same thing, but not in bridge hammocks). So, he often ended up with a pad under his kegs anyway. Also, he always had a pad with him, either as part of his pack frame, or as a sit pad or both. So using that pad under his legs, where it did not cause the typical discomfort in the hammock, and also something he might need to do anyway for adequate leg warmth, just seemed like good dual purpose use of what he was always going to have with him anyway. I guess he still feels that way, although he does now offer full length in Wookie style and lynx for his bridge hammocks, but he still sells the Yeti. Which(both the original synthetic Yeti that I have, and the newer down version) Cannibal has taken WAY below zero using a foot pad, never an issue.
So, the usual pros and cons, and a lot of it will be personal pref. And whether or not you find the task of keeping a pad under your feet to be a big issue( I don't, not so far). With the shorter version, you will save some $ and room in your pack and save a few oz, assuming you will have some sort of sit or pack pad with you anyway. (although, some folks don't even need a foot pad until significantly colder than when they need one for their back) And it might be easier to correctly adjust and keep adjusted as you reposition during the night. Or not. Have fun figuring out which appeals to you the most!
Last edited by BillyBob58; 10-01-2019 at 11:40.
If you are going to get just one (that's what we all say, at first) go for the 20 degree full length. That's because you are 6'2". I'm much shorter for a ¾ length is almost full length for me
There are different theories about rigging it up. I used to make the ends tight. But I saw on YouTube that doing so can create gaps when you go diagonal. The suggestion was to keep the ends a bit loose so they can form to the hammock. That said, your HG will have "secondary suspension". That is designed to keep the hammock snuggled up against the hammock. There are tricks you can try with that secondary bungee - like using a hook or S-biner to pull them up to your ridge line cord at the ends. But that's for you to play with.
Don't worry about being "too warm" with the UQ. I've found that down has a way of adjusting so I always seem just warm enough - within reason. I do own UQs for the different temperature ranges, but if I had to own only one, it would be 20 degree.
In order to see what few have seen, you must go where few have gone. And DO what few have done.
Ok. Thank you everyone. Here's where I'm at:
Full length, because I can't magically make 3/4 longer if I need to, and I'd prefer not to do the pad thing
20 degree. Seems like a reasonable multi-tasker to start with particularly since it's fall
I will go "premium" to save the weight, rather than Econ and always wonder if I should've spent the extra $$. I've already done the 'replace gear with lighter gear' and would rather not have that on my mind.
I'm on the fence about over-fill. I understand its stated purpose, just not sure what practical application it has and whether it's worth whatever the added weight/bulk might be.
Sounds like you may have already come across it, but HG has a pretty good writeup about overfill here.
https://hammockgear.com/what-is-overfill/
Some folks are of the opinion that overfill will improve the temp rating of the quilt. HG's point is that it's more of an "insurance policy" against loss of loft due to down migrating, clumping, etc. Loss of loft will decrease the quilt's ability to insulate, but overfill probably won't improve the rating of a properly lofted quilt.
Here's another article from a different manufacturer.
https://nunatakusa.com/Nunatak%20New...e=&theme_font=
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