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  1. #21
    Member
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    Feb 2012
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    Wakefield
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    Warbonnet El Dorado
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    Warbonnet Thunder
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    Wooki 20 Degree
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    78
    Great advice but I'd like to say a few things about ease of use, bulk and comfort.

    Dynnema tarps are much bulkier, cannot be stuffed and in general - are less user friendly. There is nothing simpler or quicker than compressing a Thunderfly tarp, for example.

    Wookie underquilts compress more and are easier to use. Think - clip clip and you're done. Wookies make hammocks significantly more comfortable compared to traditional underquilts.

    Having items compress more could possibly lead to a smaller pack. Whilst these seem like marginal gains - it adds up to a better experience, both physiologically and mentally.

    We have to factor in usability as well as weight.

    Whilst a shorter quilt seems like a great idea, it comes with the caveat that you need something else to substitute its lack of efficiency. This comes in the form of a pad or booties. I'd wager ( the pad or booties + a shorter quilt) would weigh a similar amount to a carefully crafted wooki.
    Last edited by hammocks; 09-22-2020 at 05:03.

  2. #22
    New Member cbm9000's Avatar
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    Jul 2020
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    Pittsburgh, PA
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    DH FreeBird 1.2 MTN
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    Quote Originally Posted by hammocks View Post
    Great advice but I'd like to say a few things about ease of use, bulk and comfort.
    The post seems to be about weight, not bulk and usability, but you bring up some good points about weight possibly not being the be-all and end-all of trail comfort.

    Quote Originally Posted by hammocks View Post
    Dynnema tarps are much bulkier, cannot be stuffed and in general - are less user friendly. There is nothing simpler or quicker than compressing a Thunderfly tarp, for example.
    I've heard dyneema tarps are actually easier to field repair than silnylon/silpoly (no personal exeperience), so that may be another thing to consider.

    Quote Originally Posted by hammocks View Post
    Wookie underquilts compress more and are easier to use. Think - clip clip and you're done. Wookies make hammocks significantly more comfortable compared to traditional underquilts.
    Do wooki underquilts really compress more than something like a HG Phoenix or Warbonnet Yeti?

    Quote Originally Posted by hammocks View Post
    Whilst a shorter quilt seems like a great idea, it comes with the caveat that you need something else to substitute its lack of efficiency. This comes in the form of a pad or booties. I'd wager ( the pad or booties + a shorter quilt) would weigh a similar amount to a carefully crafted wooki.

    I think the idea with partial underquilts is that a lot of people are carrying a foam sit pad for camp anyhow, so that can be pressed into insulation duty when it comes time to sleep, so even if that system is a wash in weight compared to a full length, if the sit pad is coming anyhow, you might as well use it for more than one thing so long as it's comfortable.

  3. #23
    Senior Member Rolloff's Avatar
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    Dec 2010
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    Leveland
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    Bonefire Whisper
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    HG DCF Hex
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    Sheltowee JRB SS
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    Bonefire
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    2,639
    Thanks. Great run down.

    I think I can bring a 30 degree insulated hammock in between 1.5 - 1.75 lb. I'll let you know how that comes out.
    Signature suspended

  4. #24
    cmoulder's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2017
    Location
    Ossining, NY
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    DH Darien, SLD Tree Runner
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    Quote Originally Posted by hammocks View Post
    Great advice but I'd like to say a few things about ease of use, bulk and comfort.

    Dynnema tarps are much bulkier, cannot be stuffed and in general - are less user friendly. There is nothing simpler or quicker than compressing a Thunderfly tarp, for example.

    Wookie underquilts compress more and are easier to use. Think - clip clip and you're done. Wookies make hammocks significantly more comfortable compared to traditional underquilts.

    Having items compress more could possibly lead to a smaller pack. Whilst these seem like marginal gains - it adds up to a better experience, both physiologically and mentally.

    We have to factor in usability as well as weight.

    Whilst a shorter quilt seems like a great idea, it comes with the caveat that you need something else to substitute its lack of efficiency. This comes in the form of a pad or booties. I'd wager ( the pad or booties + a shorter quilt) would weigh a similar amount to a carefully crafted wooki.
    These observations are a bit subjective IMO.

    DCF tarps can be compact if they are folded and rolled vs using snake skins. If the rest of the kit is sufficiently UL, the tarp doesn't have to be a deal breaker in the bulk department.

    I don't know what material Wookies are made from, but my 10D and 7D EE Revolt UQs are quite stuffable. Also, I have the suspension adjusted, with stopper knots on the LL3s, such that all I do is clip them in on each end and they're adjusted properly. I don't use any quilt hooks or other gizmos to hold them in place. Just seems to work. I'm 5'9" and I find the coverage with a 55" Revolt to be surprisingly good on the diagonal. As mentioned by cbm9000, I use my little foam sit pad under my heels and that works for me.

    In the summer I use a 36 liter pack and my warm weather kit fits in it with room to spare. Last night I had my shoulder season kit out and used my 52 liter pack and had a huge amount of space left over.

    Here's a summer setup that weighs about 2.5 lb for hammock, DCF tarp, and both quilts, incl all suspension, guy lines etc.

    Five Basic Principles of Going Lighter (not me... the great Cam Honan of OZ) Instagram (me!)

    ďIf everybody is thinking alike, then somebody isn't thinking.Ē ~ Gen. George S Patton

  5. #25
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2020
    Location
    Little Rock, AR
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    1.0 HyperD DIY
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    329
    I agree with cmoulder, as far as my personal gear needs are concerned. I got an 11ft DCF from DWG a few months ago, and it isnít near as bulky as I thought it might be. Sil will ball up smaller any day, but my membrane silpoly hex weighs ounces more than that gigantic DCF. And the whole thing is quite thin when folded and compressed.

    As far as field repair difference, Iíll take the DCF any day. On an overnight last week, I accidentally burnt a small, pencil eraser sized hole towards the bottom edge (yes, it just about made me sick - there were some pretty dirty words said). I had a small strip of DCF tape that I patched it with, but I couldíve used the duct tape thatís wrapped around my trekking poles in a pinch. I havenít found anything thatíll stick to sil. No sil patch? SOL. That could be a trip ender, depending on the tear and the conditions - at best.

    As cmoulder pointed out, itís all subjective on the userís needs, desires, and objectives.

  6. #26
    Member erric's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2018
    Location
    Seattle
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    DW Hexon 1.0
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    Great to see the discussion here.

    The snow is starting to melt up here in the PNW, so I'll be further refining the setup outlined above. I may wind up soaking wet lying on the ground, but that's what single overnighters are for.

    DutchWare Netless Hexon 1.0 (8.08oz) -> DutchWare Netless Cloud 71 (5.49oz) - 2.59oz difference
    I've got an order in for a netless Cloud 71 from DutchWare. I definitely hear the spooky music thinking about this one after seeing the failures in the Cloud 71 thread. I'm wondering if Dutch will suspend sales of single layer hammocks in this fabric.

    HammockGear Phoenix 20 (14.77oz) -> Warbonnet Yeti 30 (8.67oz) - 6.1oz difference
    I'm amazed at what a great idea the Warbonnet asymmetrical UQ system is, and that no one (to my knowledge) has copied it yet. I'm saving some weight on using 10D fabrics here, too. My only point of concern is that the Yeti is also shorter to the Phoenix, so we'll see how that goes.

    HammockGear Hex Tarp (5.45oz) -> DutchWare Asym Tarp (3.17oz) - 2.28oz difference, 2.68oz difference including 2 less stakes
    I had this tarp last season, but I'm going to commit to using it full time. I don't really buy the idea that an asym tarp won't keep you dry in serious weather. In storm mode, with the tie outs pitched straight down towards the ground, it seems just as protective to me as a hex tarp would be. I've fiddled with using a Hennesy style single line tarp suspension, where you attach the tarp directly to your tree straps, but this seems sketchy. I don't want to be in a situation where I can't bring the tarp low enough to protect me from sideways rain. I'll be experimenting with different methods of suspending the tarp.

    Total weight savings: 11.37oz

    So these changes will put me in an absurdly light baseweight zone. With all my gear, we're talking sub 6lbs even, which is mind blowing to me. It's funny to think that hammocks have a reputation as being heavy, when my total shelter weight (hammock, suspension, tarp, guylines, stakes) will be 12oz! I don't think there's a one person tent on the market less than a pound. It's not really an apples to apples comparison here, because I don't use a bugnet, but at this point I'm only really competing with tarp and bivvy combos. My insulation will be 25oz total, which you can only get close to as a ground sleeper if you use one of those uncomfortable closed cell foam pads.

    Anyway, I'll report back on how this season goes. Here's my full gear list for this season, for the curious.
    Last edited by erric; 06-19-2021 at 12:09.

  7. #27
    cmoulder's Avatar
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    I've been tempted by the whisper light Dutch Asym DCF tarp, but having used my SLD Simplicity a few times I just don't think it would suffice in a real deluge with any kind of wind.

    Hexon 1.0 is as light as I'm willing to go with hammock fabrics, so a Dutch half wit fills the bill when I want to go really light.

    While not practical or desirable for most—in fact, outright hated by many—Esbit cook kits are very light and the fuel is about half the weight of alcohol, basically 1oz per day for hot breakfast/coffee and dinner. Best and cheapest Esbit supplier I have found is Industrial Revolution.
    Five Basic Principles of Going Lighter (not me... the great Cam Honan of OZ) Instagram (me!)

    ďIf everybody is thinking alike, then somebody isn't thinking.Ē ~ Gen. George S Patton

  8. #28
    Member erric's Avatar
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    Oct 2018
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    Seattle
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    Thanks for the comment cmoulder. I adore my Hexon 1.0 netless, and I have my suspicions I'll wind up sticking with it after trying the Cloud 71.

    I've never considered esbit despite being aware of its weight advantage because, just as you say, it has a bad rep. I've heard negative feedback from everyone I've seen give esbit a shot except for MRE eating military types, who may just be used to it. I absolutely love my alcohol setup.

  9. #29
    cmoulder's Avatar
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    Esbit is definitely an acquired taste... or rather smell. Honestly it never bothered me that much and now I've come to like it, in a Colonel Kilgore "I love the smell of naplam in the morning" kinda way

    What cordage are you using on the tarp?

    I'll be interested to hear your impressions of the Nashville Cutaway in the Ultra Lite Gear Forum.

    I'm not getting another pack, I'm not getting another pack, I'm not getting another pack, but this does inspire me to break out the MLD Core (28L) and go a little SUL-ish for a change.
    Five Basic Principles of Going Lighter (not me... the great Cam Honan of OZ) Instagram (me!)

    ďIf everybody is thinking alike, then somebody isn't thinking.Ē ~ Gen. George S Patton

  10. #30
    Member erric's Avatar
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    Oct 2018
    Location
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    I believe it's 1.3mm UHMWPE reflective Dutch Cord, which is the lightest, thinnest cord I've ever seen. I tried it out as an experiment and was pleasantly surprised at how well it works. It isn't prone to tangling or knotting up because it's so stiff. If you roll it up and give it a few wraps, it holds its shape and stays put. I have my guylines permanently bowlined to my guy outs and just marlin spike onto the stakes, which is so easy and simple I can't imagine doing it any other way.

    On longer trips I'm planning to switch to zing-it, because the quoted 100lb breaking strength of this cord makes reliability sketchy. However, I've used it to tie down my tarp by wrapping it around bricks in the backyard (sharp, abrasive 90deg edge) and haven't seen any damage.

    I've been repeating the exact same mantra (I will not buy another pack) for the past year. To say I feel guilty about ordering that Cutaway would be an understatement. The Palante V2 is a fantastic pack and there's really not much justification to buy the Cutaway, except that Palante is a hip brand and I'll probably have an easy time selling the V2. I'm after the shoulder straps on the Cutaway. The ones on the V2 are fine, but running vest style shoulder straps make so such sense to me I feel like I have to try them. I often find myself doing light trail running on descents. And as a crazy as it sounds, the V2 is simply too big for my typical 1-2 night gear. Palante make a running vest style pack called the Joey which was also a strong contender, but reviews of the Cutaway are too glowing to ignore.

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