Broken continuous loops

[MikekiM]

I have a few extra CL's... not being used. Shoot me a PM if you want a pair. I probably have 7/64 Amsteel, Dynaglide and NE Rope..

I make them using the locked brummel. No way they are coming apart.

If you wanted a set with a pull loop I can make them for you.

[bluesam3]

Probably best to start with new amsteel
Sometimes commercial items are made using least amount of material possible.
Watch several video tutorials on continuous loops
Also get Grog Knot app
Duplicate Grog Sling except that you need ends longer to have longer splice.
Knot video tutorials will give good measurements for all markings and steps in your continuous loop
Or send vendor a picture and ask for another set of continuous loops

There's not much point having longer buries on a Grog Sling style CL: you've already derated the rope so much by putting the brummel in that the length of the bury after the first bit doesn't make any difference.

[Dvankirk]

Sounds fun, I may have to give it a shot

Just be careful, it gets addictive. I end up splicing things that really don't need to be just because it's fun (and I just like the look of a loop not having a tail from a knot).

[Just Bill]

HereÂ’s a picture



Attachment 176819

Splicing failure for sure...

For those who might be affected- you can feel along your continuous loop for a hard bump opposite the thinnest portion of the loop. If you cannot find it then contact your supplier.

You can debate the taper, bury length, etc and be technically correct about it, but when the job simply didn't get done not much to talk about really.

That said- we are not doing rigging here where we need to discuss percentages of breaking strength or fids of length.
Even if you allowed for less than ideal techniques and cut the amsteel strength; 7/64" still holds 800lbs... even if you just did a locked Brummel with no buries that would hold you.

In theory a perfectly spliced loop with no brummel and no stitching could hold you by friction... but it would need to be pre loaded properly to do it.

In real life; any decently made continuous loop will work unless you cut it in some way to produce a failure.

In real life; Somebody got busy. A new subcontractor or new hire messed this up and it didn't get caught before it went out the door.
You build enough stuff and **** happens.

Not much to it. As all of us who spliced more than once know- you wouldn't do the bury until you finish the locked brummel. And you wouldn't forget the locked brummel unless you just started doing these and didn't know what you were doing. It's like tying your shoes and only tying the bow... once you know what you're doing you cannot skip the first step.

[MikekiM]

BOOM! What JB said ^^^^^

[TominMN]

...

Not much to it. As all of us who spliced more than once know- you wouldn't do the bury until you finish the locked brummel. And you wouldn't forget the locked brummel unless you just started doing these and didn't know what you were doing. It's like tying your shoes and only tying the bow... once you know what you're doing you cannot skip the first step.

And I'll repeat: Hardly anyone does a locked Brummel on CLs. I can't say I've seen every YT tutorial, but every one I have seen and every "commercial" CL I've seen uses pass-throughs that do absolutely no locking. The only true locked Brummel example I've seen is on Animated Knots. Now, if folks have gone to that technique, great, but I'd like to see a strength test.

Phantom and I had this discussion here some time back.

[leiavoia]

^^^ agree with Tom, disagree with Bill.

Does anyone have a machine to test this on? I'd like to solve this once and for all.

[Firesong]

What’s interesting about this whole conversation is it was started with broken loops from a vendor. They did the loop poorly. I believe there was another thread with the same poor broken loop from the same vendor. Who ever was making the loops made them wrong. Now not saying never ever but I have never had mine slip out. I don’t put the weight on the brummel / reverse the direction of the bury. But I do interweave the free end TWICE before putting the bury in. I can’t see how weakening the loop by reversing direction (putting all the weight on half the yarns is ever a good thing). The worst that has ever happened is the normal ends having some yarns poke through which is superficial in looks.

[bluesam3]

What’s interesting about this whole conversation is it was started with broken loops from a vendor. They did the loop poorly. I believe there was another thread with the same poor broken loop from the same vendor. Who ever was making the loops made them wrong. Now not saying never ever but I have never had mine slip out. I don’t put the weight on the brummel / reverse the direction of the bury. But I do interweave the free end TWICE before putting the bury in. I can’t see how weakening the loop by reversing direction (putting all the weight on half the yarns is ever a good thing). The worst that has ever happened is the normal ends having some yarns poke through which is superficial in looks.

The trick here is that amsteel is so absurdly strong for what we use it for that it basically doesn't matter how you splice it, in terms of total loading weight. The weakness comes in its ability to work itself loose while not underload, then fail when loaded again. That's what the locked brummel avoids.

[Firesong]

The weakness comes in its ability to work itself loose while not underload, then fail when loaded again. That's what the locked brummel avoids.

Im saying I’ve never seen one work itself loose. Weakening a rope to prevent something that shouldn’t happen seems wrong. The extra strength of the rope is a safety buffer that shouldn’t be expected to be sacrificed because of poor construction to begin with.