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  1. #41
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    Thanks for all the responses. It seems to me (from the responses) this was an isolated incident that shouldn't happen and I don't need to going back to my tent anytime soon.

  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by TominMN View Post
    And I'll repeat: Hardly anyone does a locked Brummel on CLs. I can't say I've seen every YT tutorial, but every one I have seen and every "commercial" CL I've seen uses pass-throughs that do absolutely no locking. The only true locked Brummel example I've seen is on Animated Knots. Now, if folks have gone to that technique, great, but I'd like to see a strength test.

    Phantom and I had this discussion here some time back.
    Can you show me an example of each?
    I am not a splicing nerd... nor do I watch everyone's stuff to see what they do.

    I do a lock on my continuous loops and eye splices. (and my bridge suspensions).

    I'm not sure what the 'pass through' method is but I can picture it I think. Is it basically just passing one end through the center of the other to create the circle.. then bury each tail?
    That is what I picture being done to produce this failure.
    I can't imagine anyone just doing back to back buries... but maybe it was that bad.

    https://www.animatedknots.com/brummel-eye-splice-knot

    I assume this is what you are discussing here?
    I don't do it via the inversion method they show. If you have access to both ends of the line that is not needed in my opinion. Good trick if you need it, but extra steps if you don't.
    But when finished my lock looks the same. I don't have a machine to test it but I would hang on the lock by itself.

    I have noticed some folks selling CL's with a very pronounced bump- almost a knot- which I think is very odd. I would imagine that creates much more stress.

    As I type and think on it- It happened to me once in a while when I first started... but I can't recall what I was doing to mess it up like that. I think putting the lock too close together was the issue if I recall correctly.
    Last edited by Just Bill; 09-11-2019 at 14:36.

  3. #43
    Senior Member Crazytown3's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ajoutdoors View Post
    ...I don't need to going back to my tent anytime soon.
    Now that's something we can ALL agree on.

  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Just Bill View Post
    I have noticed some folks selling CL's with a very pronounced bump- almost a knot- which I think is very odd. I would imagine that creates much more stress.
    This video illustrates the two different techniques we are discussing, and the potential failure that may have started this thread. However, the person states that the brummel method does not change the weight rating, which i think we all intuitively disagree with.


  5. #45
    Senior Member Eidson's Avatar
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    Commenting here so I can keep track of this and hope to see further discussion...

    leiavoia posted the video I was looking for. Last fall I had one of my own diy continuous loops fail on me for the first time. It wasn't on my hammock suspension but rather used as a securing point on my kayak. It just came undone...
    I had been making them for ages in the non-locked/non-pass through style shown in the video. Years without having an issue, whether used in my suspensions or just as convenient connection device, but I did come across that video when trying to figure out why my work had failed for the first time.
    I've made a handful in that video's "locked" style and they work great, maybe giving me a little more piece of mind, but I do wonder how much it really does help the prevention of the loop coming undone.
    I'm a small/light guy, so even if the "locked" style does create a little more stress, I'm well within even degraded weight limits I would think.

    I think terminology is confusing people, myself included, as I don't know if the video shows a true "locked" loop. Pass through, as TominMN stated seems to be more appropriate. I don't know if I've ever come across a true locked continuous loop nor can I picture how it would be done.

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by leiavoia View Post
    This video illustrates the two different techniques we are discussing, and the potential failure that may have started this thread. However, the person states that the brummel method does not change the weight rating, which i think we all intuitively disagree with.
    Thanks for posting this. Method 1 is what I contend we see most often. I wasn't aware that Papa Smurf, Dutch, and Brandon was using method 2 and I should have been as I have purchased from all of them. I'll have to go look at the various CLs.

    I see Just Bill's comment that he has seen CLs with a bump and found that odd. I find it odd that he can make a CL with a locked Brummel and NOT have a bump!

    And I agree: the locked Brummel absolutely must be the weak spot in method 2 but we don't yet know exactly how much the CL is compromised. Those using it must consider the trade-off to be justified.

    There is a third technique. That is to simply do the buries without passing anything completely through. Like method 1, it is best to follow up with a locking stitch to prevent any slippage. This technique is easily the strongest.

    I'll also repeat that only one good bury is needed to achieve maximum strength. 5" is a good number. The other bury can be shorter. Bt still, maximum strength is achieved by having both buries properly tapered.

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Just Bill View Post
    Can you show me an example of each?

    ...
    Sorry, I should have replied directly to you instead of making the comment in that last post. Bad form. The AK example you reference shows an eye loop, not a CL.

    leiavoia was kind enough to provide the examples we've been discussing. I'm sure you'll read my reply to that post.

    Back-to-back buries are actually the strongest loop!

  8. #48
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    Broken continuous loops

    If you make your own continuous loops and have used them for years without a blowout, then you are hanging high on the hog.
    Many trails go to good night’s sleep
    Below are Phantom facts, just me guessing

    Locked brummell continuous loop is illustrated in Grog Knot App—Grog Sling
    If stress tested by a machine, a pass through type continuous loop with correct length buries, will test stronger than locked brummell continuous loop.
    Also it looks neater, no bump in middle.
    Pass through continuous loops can get loose if bury gets pulled when loop is not loaded. Sometimes the bury can get pulled part way out, then remaining length of bury might not hold.

    Absolute strength needed for rock climbing is not needed for general hammock use.
    Even if both buries come completely out of Grog Sling, you will most likely be held just by locked brummell overnight in your hammock.

    Stitching can secure pass through buries, preventing bury from accidentally working back out when loop is not under load

    Continuous loops from our cottage vendors are generally very good. Most are made with locked brummells. This does not prevent bury from backing out, but it does prevent total failure, because you can hang on a locked brummell only with no spliced bury (probably overnight)

    Another way to secure bury is to add some all weather flexible glue to inner bury just before pulling it into splice and setting or milking bury
    I use 1/8 amsteel for increased safety margin (not needed). And if doing pass through splice, you can make buries as long as possible—almost meeting on opposite side of loop. This will give most strength (probably not needed) and with longer buries, increased gripping friction when not under load will make backing out less likely.

    Continuous loop Splicer Technicians probably don’t make much money and there is time pressure due to piece work payment rates. And for commercial loops some vendors might be tempted to use less amsteel and shorter buried splices.

    I think blowout shown at start of this thread was rare event. Maybe a new guy, maybe tired, or in a hurry, maybe trying to use less amsteel. He might have to buy all his own amsteel and sell finished product to cottage vendor
    I don’t know!!!
    I believe this was an anomaly and not likely to reoccur anytime soon

    If you up in the air in yo hammock, you must be doing something right...
    So many smart hammockers, finding different paths to same place...hammock nirvana!
    Last edited by Phantom Grappler; 09-11-2019 at 19:00.

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phantom Grappler View Post


    Stitching can secure pass through buries, preventing bury from accidentally working back out when loop is not under load



    Another way to secure bury is to add some all weather flexible glue to inner bury just before pulling it into splice and setting or milking bury
    OK, now I am intrigued!! is there a particular brand of glue you recommend or have used? I don't think I would trust any stitches that I might make to not come undone within a minute.

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by wienerman View Post
    OK, now I am intrigued!! is there a particular brand of glue you recommend or have used? I don't think I would trust any stitches that I might make to not come undone within a minute.
    Wiener man, I have used waterproof flexible cloth glue found in hobby section at Walmart. Intended use is patching jeans.
    I’ve tried glue a time or two and do not know if it works after time and use.
    I make complete splice and bury, making sure that entire bury is hidden after all done.
    Then I remove spliced bury and splice it again, and before pulling bury all way through, then I add glue to exposed inner bury and quickly pull it in, set bury-milk bury and pull real hard on loop.

    Probably unneeded Phantom overkill
    Best bet skip glue and use longest bury splices possible and set them real hard by hanging body weight on loop. Probably never back out—ever!

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