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  1. #1
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    Ridgerunner question

    So I am new to having a ridgerunner, and fall here in Wisconsin is coming up soon. I was wondering if anyone has used a pad stacked with an underquilt to go into colder temps. I have the double layer and an incubator 20 which I know seems to leave a small gap on the sides due to the cat cut of the hammock but I was curious if the incubator would help the insulating factor of the pad along with hugging my shoulders but the pad would still keep my lower back and butt warm due to the gap. Does anyone have any experience and or ideas to help me?

  2. #2
    TrailBlaser's Avatar
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    Ridgerunner question

    I have a Ridgecreek XL UQ and a 20d Econ burrow TQ with my DL WBRR. The fit of the XL on the RR is excellent. I also have an UQ protector. I have supplemented that setup with a military surplus casualty blanket in the sleeve in colder temps. This year I plan to add a Sea to Summit Thermolite Reactor liner along with my TQ. I'll bring the casualty blanket along as well since it is lightweight and rolls up small.
    Last edited by TrailBlaser; 09-07-2019 at 17:23.
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  3. #3
    Senior Member TrailSlug's Avatar
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    A pad will help and it will also change the lay dynamics so my suggestion to you would be to try it. I would also strongly recommend getting you a Lynx underquilt as these clip on 4 corners and fit like a glove eliminating much of the cold air gaps that you are trying to work around using the ill fitted incubator.

  4. #4
    Senior Member BillyBob58's Avatar
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    There are some divided opinions around here regarding using a pad with an UQ. Some think it will make matters worse because it will mess up the fit of the UQ. That is certainly possible, and something to watch out for. But my personal opinion is that you can expect to greatly extend the warmth of an UQ by adding a pad. Heck, we have some folks here that have been plenty warm at minus 11 to minus 22F(and who knows, those are just the ones I know of) WITH PAD ALONE. I personally experienced my first ever truly toasty night in a hammock, at a bit below 20F, by stacking 2 thin pads( Thermarest Ridge Rest full length, .625" thick, R value 2.6, under a torso sized TR self inflating 1" thick 2.6R value, and nothing else. Stacked on top of each other inside a Speer SPE/segmented pad extender- to hold them in place). Considering how warm I was, there is no telling how low I could have gone. Zero? Certainly 10F, IMO. I have not often used pads in really cold weather(unless you count the open cell foam pad of the Hennessy Super Shelter), but the one time I did, it could not have worked better. The main problem with pads in a hammock is reduced comfort, or staying on the pad and/or condensation/sweat. But I find those to be mostly a non issue with both bridge and 90 degree hammocks. YMMV.

    However, it is possible- especially in a gathered end hammock with diagonal lay, for a pad to interfere with the fit of an UQ and mess up the expected warmth, though I think much less likely with a bridge hammock. Especially if the pad is only 20" wide, while depending on the UQ and perhaps a fleece jacket stuffed next to a shoulder or wherever needed, that pad is barely wider than your body. Highly unlikely to mess up the fit along your back and butt, especially when laid out straight inside the pad pocket of rectangular shaped bridge hammock (none of those diagonal caused fit issues). You, the hammock and pad are all laying in the same direction. But IMO you can expect a whole bunch of added warmth.

    Some of my bridge hammocks, with some of my quilts, have had a bit of a gap on the side, as you mentioned. Many times I have run a thin piece of shock cord side from side to side to pull it in, but I have never been sure it actually decreased warmth. And more than once have ignored it and been plenty warm. I finally figured out that the gap decreased as the quilt traveled down away from the top edge of the hammock to where my elbow, shoulder or hip was, or even my back or butt if leaning back into the side of the hammock as I am so prone to do. But it always seems like when I push out part of the hammock like that, compressing the TQ, there is some UQ on the other side making contact and keeping me warm.

    You might also want to research vapor barrier theory. Especially since you already are using a VB, as most pads are also VBs.

    One thing's for sure: unlike in my case, where you live you should get plenty of opportunity to put all this to the test at home with safe bail out handy. Lucky fellow! Let us know what you figure out.
    Last edited by BillyBob58; 09-10-2019 at 17:08.

  5. #5
    Senior Member sidneyhornblower's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kjfranklinx4 View Post
    ...new to having a ridgerunner...I was wondering if anyone has used a pad stacked with an underquilt to go into colder temps.
    My experience is not exactly analogous because my bridge hammock isn't a Ridgerunner, but since it's a bridge it's going to be somewhat similar. I've successfully used a 20 x 20 inch piece of closed cell foam as a supplement inside the hammock, lying directly on top of it, with my underquilt underneath the hammock. I've also tried a full length pad inside the hammock with the underquilt underneath and didn't like that setup at all. It was less comfortable and I thought it made gaps worse. The smaller piece of CCF pad is mainly to kill any cold spots that may crop up where the underquilt sags away from the hammock body. I also like an underquilt protector in cold weather to seal up gaps and give me more dead air space underneath.

    I don't have a lot of experience in super cold temperatures, but have used the combination of Jarbidge underquilt, underquilt protector and small piece of CCF pad into the low 20s a few times and once down to 18 degrees F.

    If you can seal up gaps, my belief is that a pad plus underquilt is a viable combination to get down into lower temperatures than either can sustain alone. The underquilt protector helps a lot in that respect. Since your Ridgerunner has a pad pocket, I'd think it would be easier to use both pad and UQ. My wife has a Ridgerunner but has only ever used a pad with it and only into the upper 40s a few times.
    "...the height of hammock snobbery!"

  6. #6
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    I see you have a variety of replies from seasoned users.

    With hammocks a lot comes down to personal choice.

    I found a pad chanfed the lay of my RR in a way I do not like. I feel like I am on top of the hammock instead of cradled by the bridge hammock. I do not like how my RR feels with a pad, just my personal reaction.

    I tried several options before purchasing a Lynx. The Lynx seals out the cold, I designed and built my own TQ. I put a 6in. Flange around the top & sides of my TQ, the flanges drop down over the UQ and make a excellent seal with ease. We normally hang where there is at least a strong breeze which means being sure all potential gaps are covered.

    In my opinion you need to experiment and see what FITS your needs.

    P.S. I watched several places to purchase my first Lynx. Synthetics are good for certain conditions, just depends on your Hang.

  7. #7
    cmc4free's Avatar
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    My Ridgerunner setup includes the Ridge Creek XL 3-season from Arrowhead Equipment, which is good to 25° or so. Like the Lynx, it just clips to the 4 corners of the hammock and fits perfectly. To supplement, I use a Therm-a-Rest Z Lite Sol closed cell foam pad between the layers of the hammock. This is a thin pad and it's form-fitting, so it doesn't really affect the lay of the hammock or the fit of the underquilt.

  8. #8
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    Lots of opinions, comfort is different for everyone. I found that for me any pad that was warm enough to matter lifted me too high in the RR to get the same comfy feel. I don't get out in cold weather much though so while the cost wasn't prohibitive, spending the money on a Lynx wasn't appealing. I went with the AHE Ridgecreek XL and I love it. I use the 1-season 3/4 length all summer and break the XL out for the occasional colder trips. When my kids are a bit older and we backpack more/car camp less I'll probably spring for the Lynx but I've been warm/comfortable/hassle free/happy with the Ridgecreek for sure.

  9. #9
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    My Exped 9 LW pad really fills up my RR pad pocket. It is super warm, super comfy, and unfortunately super heavy and bulky. But for short, cold winter hikes,I ll put up with it. I have the old style RR poles, the kind with the insert to make the head end wider. I take the insert out in the winter though, it makes it easier to wrap my UQ around me.

    My 3 season warm night UQ is the Lynx 40*. Works great, keeps me warm to about 50 or so because I'm a really cold sleeper. It does the job. When its a little colder than that, I slip my 1/8 inch gossamer gear in the pocket to boost the rating. Much colder than that, the Exped gets put into service.

  10. #10
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    Other than using a small pad as SyndneyHornblower suggested; I have had little if any luck stacking a sleeping pad with a quilt.

    In theory this should work, but in practice it does not.

    The chief issue with bridges is that it is difficult to drive heat directly down into the UQ. Insulation only traps heat, otherwise it's just more dead air. If you cannot dump any heat into the UQ it really isn't doing anything but hanging there.

    With a pad- the pad itself is preventing you from warming up the UQ to the point that you are basically just sleeping on the pad itself. This seems worse with a mylar lined (IR reflective) surface.
    The closest to getting a cumulative effect I found was a plain Neo-Air xlite plus an UQ.
    Second best was a CCF pad with an air pad on top of it.

    I have several dozen pads I tried in different combos last winter with no real luck getting much past 20*. Even with a wider 26" pad, your shoulders still end up smashed against the sides a bit unless you side sleep on the pad. Though using an Exped Duo pad does solve that issue... the version of that pad I have is a three season and poops out around 35*.

    I suppose if you had a downmat or similar... and you just needed a little supplemental heat at the shoulders due to the bridge shape... then using a 3/4 UQ just for that could work. Though using two hunks of foam (sit pads) at each shoulder is probably more efficient. Doubly true if you already have two pads in your kit.

    If you are going to stack:
    Stack pads on pads or quilts with quilts.

    CCF with an inflatable on top seems best (or multiple CCF pads).

    If you do not have a single UQ that works, stacking UQ's is better than pads.
    I had good results stacking a full length with a partial length UQ.
    Depending on the bridge itself- it did matter which was inside or outside. On my larger bridges the 3/4 UQ seemed better on the inside. On my medium bridges the 3/4 over the full length seemed better.
    I would think you'd find the 3/4 inside better on the Ridgerunner but I cannot say.

    What did not work at all- was laying a costco throw inside a full length UQ. It just weighed it down too much.

    By far the most useful trick for winter bridge use for me was to crank up the TQ. This helps pump heat back down into the UQ and warm the whole insulation system.
    One of these days I'll get a downmat and that will likely be my winter bridge system... for now though I use an Xtherm to about 20* or so with a sit pad at one shoulder. If temps get worse I can drop that to the ground and sleep easily around zero. I usually bring a 20* down topquilt with one of my 45* Primaloft TQs stacked over as I like to wear the synthetic as a camp puffy.


    All that said-
    Zero is about it for me with a bridge. I could probably go lower, but at some point it gets silly. I don't use gear just to prove a point.. I use gear that makes sense.
    Bridges simply sleep cooler. A vast advantage in hot weather, but a realistic disadvantage in cold. The more open your bridge, the more pronounced the issue.
    The BMBH is probably the warmest as it wraps you the most. My large bridges are the worst.

    I prefer a bridge, but I am quite unlikely to die if I choose to use a gathered end or a sleeping pad on the ground in deep cold.
    With snow on the ground it's often more than comfortable enough and a single 16 ounce Xtherm will do the job. A good mummy bag on top and a hot bottle of tea will get me well below zero happily without requiring a pulk to haul it.

    A gathered end with a zero degree UQ and a 20* TQ will do the job easily enough for a single evening or two as well. I don't think there are a ton of us here who do much more than a night or two in deep winter regardless... so for that handful of nights a year when it even gets cold enough to debate it... I choose just to put the bridge on the shelf and save the debate. I play around in the backyard here or there... but if I'm on a trip in deep cold I take a system I know and trust. Fiddling with stacking four or five quilts up or dragging a whole pulk full of foam pads is much more demoralizing and painful than spending a night away from my bridge.

    It's just gear. Nothing wrong with acknowledging its limitations.
    Last edited by Just Bill; 09-10-2019 at 08:21.

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