Knot Confused and information overload

[Cabmanhang]

HF is a great resource for hammock related knot information
and some real experts provide so much. Phantom Grappler, Myers, and so many others have pushed the envelope in regards to knots as they relate to hammocks.

In my recent research, I've discovered that contrasting viewpoints are everywhere to be found.

Some people exclaim particular knots to be ineffective and others swear by them. Some say de-rating a line is a death sentence, while others point to load ratings and application relevance. Some imply impending doom, while others attest to years of reliable service.

I've been studying knots for a while, so I feel like I know how to distinguish between good info and the knot Nostradamus'.

My concern is for the folks trying to learn a new knot and being dissuaded by the proclamations of "DEATH" if you use a particular knot, or a certain type of rope. Regardless of people attesting to years of success using a particular knot, someone will come along and say "you may die". Regardless of success for different materials holding knots, folks come along and say "it won't hold a knot".

So, I guess the purpose of this post is two-fold:

1. To all of the innovators and the users who've provided great insight and testimony about knots, Thank you!

2. To those seeking out information about knots, BEWARE THE NAYSAYER. Seriously, the foreboding and ominous predictions I've seen just don't match up with reality.

Study the folks who can provide empirical analysis. Test knots yourself, just don't do it from a highwire. Try out different materials. You may be able to make something work that someone else couldn't, because they weren't doing it right.


Here is a photo of a Utility Constrictor Rope with a tautline hitch as the locking knot. Tautline isn't supposed to work on amsteel according to many. But, coupled with the UCR bury is bombproof. This one has been in service for nearly three years and hasn't slipped an inch. Ever.

ucr with tautline hitch.jpg


Just like each one should Hang Your Own Hang, I think it would be prudent for folks to find what works for them. Don't be discouraged by the hypertensive proclamations of impending doom and try things for yourself in a low risk environment.

https://www.animatedknots.com is a great resource!

Heck, you may be the next innovator of a revolutionary and death defying knot for the hammock world!

[Tato Spud]

Thanks, Cabman, for the reality check. Also I agree with the kudos to those who have shared much great knot information on HF and other outlets. I have benefited from their knowledge as well.

Here is my go to knot video. If you can dance to it, you can learn to tie any knot
https://youtu.be/TUHgGK-tImY
And now my kids are groaning...

Sent from my BLA-A09 using Tapatalk

[greyhound352]

Through my personal use I find the adjustable grip hitch works better than the the taughtline hitch for tarp tieouts. The difference is the placement of the last hitch. To me this mentioned hitch adjusts easier than the other one.

https://www.animatedknots.com/adjust...rip-hitch-knot

Also I like the bowline with the Yosemite tie off version better than the standard bowline.

http://igkt-solent.co.uk/yosemite-bo...-yosemite-tie/

[Cabmanhang]

Through my personal use I find the adjustable grip hitch works better than the the taughtline hitch for tarp tieouts. The difference is the placement of the last hitch. To me this mentioned hitch adjusts easier than the other one.

https://www.animatedknots.com/adjust...rip-hitch-knot

Also I like the bowline with the Yosemite tie off version better than the standard bowline.

http://igkt-solent.co.uk/yosemite-bo...-yosemite-tie/

Those are nifty. Will have to try em out.

[Us5Camp]

Thanks, Cabman, for the reality check. Also I agree with the kudos to those who have shared much great knot information on HF and other outlets. I have benefited from their knowledge as well.

Here is my go to knot video. If you can dance to it, you can learn to tie any knot
https://youtu.be/TUHgGK-tImY
And now my kids are groaning...

Sent from my BLA-A09 using Tapatalk

A favorite !!

[cmoulder]

The tautline application as illustrated in the photo carries a very low load.

I just did a test by tying a tautline Amsteel-to-Amsteel, cinched and dressed it up properly, and it slipped with about a 10 lb tug on it. Next I tied it on a loop (as one would use for a tarp ridge line, for instance) and it slipped with an extremely light pull, less than 5 lbs. I did a 2-wrap and a 3-wrap and it made no difference at all. I have previously tested others — such as blake's, klemheist, hedden, prusik — and they all slip as well.

However, I agree that people should test knots/hitches/bends and find out for themselves. There might be unique instances such as yours where they will work but are not appropriate for most others.

[chapinb]

Few things to keep in mind as referance points about knots.
Alot of how a knot works is based on how you dress it. A beckett holds great on poly webbing, but will slip or be very hard to undo if done wrong. Correct execution is key.

Knots behave very differently on different lines. Again, Beckett holds easily and well on thick poly. It does not on super light webbing.

Rerating a line is a serious thing. Upwards of 50% line strength can be lost, depending on the knot. Thays part of the reason most suspensions have 1500 pound and up ratings. That gives a large margin of safety and generally iant an issue. Now on thinner line, it can be a problem.

Use some common sense. Practice your knots. Learn their limits. And most importantly, never hang higher then your willing to fall.

[Cabmanhang]

The tautline application as illustrated in the photo carries a very low load.

I just did a test by tying a tautline Amsteel-to-Amsteel, cinched and dressed it up properly, and it slipped with about a 10 lb tug on it. Next I tied it on a loop (as one would use for a tarp ridge line, for instance) and it slipped with an extremely light pull, less than 5 lbs. I did a 2-wrap and a 3-wrap and it made no difference at all. I have previously tested others — such as blake's, klemheist, hedden, prusik — and they all slip as well.

However, I agree that people should test knots/hitches/bends and find out for themselves. There might be unique instances such as yours where they will work but are not appropriate for most others.

You are correct cmoulder!

The standard tautline backfeeds on amsteel with heavy pull. I should have clarified in my earlier post that the key to the success I experienced was the fact that it was coupled with a UCR bury AND I did a return bury at the end to prevent the backfeeding usually experienced with a tautline hitch. I tried to highlight the return bury in the photo but didn't mention it. Thanks for pointing that out!

As the above poster greyhound352 pointed out, the Grip Hitch is much better at gripping and actually eliminates the backfeeding issue and the need for a return-bury stopper.

There are so many ways to skin a cat. Try it for yourselves, folks. The knots, not skinning cats. (Who does that?)

[scbicycle]

knots are one of those things that everyone should have access too. Learning a few basic knots that can be tied and retied comes in super handy. Many of my peers always resort to ratchet straps and the like (non hammock talk here). When the straps are not available they are lost with what to do with a rope or cord. a figure 8, 1/2 hitch, truckers or bowline can serve the purpose in so many situations. Many many other knots can also fill gaps but these 4 are easy to learn and can be relied on for many things.

[cmoulder]

knots are one of those things that everyone should have access too. Learning a few basic knots that can be tied and retied comes in super handy. Many of my peers always resort to ratchet straps and the like (non hammock talk here). When the straps are not available they are lost with what to do with a rope or cord. a figure 8, 1/2 hitch, truckers or bowline can serve the purpose in so many situations. Many many other knots can also fill gaps but these 4 are easy to learn and can be relied on for many things.

lol how true this is.

I once had to help pull a tractor with a big mowing deck out of a drainage ditch. The side of the ditch was soft and two wheels on the right side slipped off the shoulder and had the whole rig tipping very precariously. I had some 2" nylon webbing that I tied to my Outback with a knot that I don't recall, and tied the other end to a round metal bumper tube on the tractor with a slipped clove hitch. Someone remarked that after you pull it with that much force it is going to be impossible to untie. So I back the car out and we were able to get the tractor out no problem. They were astonished that the slipped clove hitch released with a simple tug.