Cool weather is coming and it's time to break out the Palace....

[Vanhalo]

I know we've discussed this over the years, but maybe someone has a new way to get the Palace doors to close completely. Velcro, Kam snaps, toggles... folks have tried many solutions.

At one point I pinged HG about why I can overlap the doors on my Standard, but the Palace geometry doesn't allow it. The answer I got, if I remember correctly was that they needed to use the door shape they do, to conserve weight. I didn't buy that answer then, nor do I now.

At present, I've got a small toggle in the middle of the doors.. Used a piece of cuben tape with a small loop sewn in it on one door and the toggle on the other door, but that only gets the doors to touch.. no way I can get them overlap with a really steep pitch.

Does anyone have any new suggestions??

I always crossed the head end with shock chord and toggled the foot end along with the Z-Paks double hook apparatus.

In the second pic below I do not quite have them overlapped like I normally would.

This worked pretty well.

You should be very familiar with this tarp



IMG-1069.jpgIMG-1073.jpg

[Ohoopee]

We need to look at this some more when we hike to compare door closure methods.

I noticed that if you pull the door corners straight in toward each other that the result is not as good as when the corners are pulled slightly down toward the stakes. This is why I use the combined shock cord and static cord and set it up so that the cords slide down the corner guy lines. I find this works well enough for me. But for a wider pitch, there isn't enough material. I'd imagine this would be really tough when using it with a bridge hammock.

Mine is similar to this. I have plenty of overlap at bottom.

[Vanhalo]

I agree...

However, I would like to get as good a seal as possible anyplace above hammock level. Mostly concerned about blowing wind and rain.

With the Standard, I can overlap the doors and close off everything other than where the suspension is coming through.

Just seems poorly planned that the larger tarp, billed originally as the Winter Palace, has less of a winter seal than the smaller Standard.

I slept many nights in the wind and the rain and never got wet.
Of course i did have cover @ home but the 2 nights I spent on the AT ..top of Cheoah Bald and then Cody Gap...it stormed both nights.

On Cody Gap .....that tarp felt like I was under a magic carpet but I never got wet.

I normally kept the head end like Cmoulder's pic

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[BillyBob58]

I think it's an exercise in futility to get the doors of any tarp to close completely. I once camped in a snowstorm in the Pine Barrens, and I really had my Winter Palace locked down - I was sure I was secure from any wimpy snowstorm. I woke up in the middle of the night to discover about four inches of snow on my topquilt - most of it was coming through a tiny little gap of maybe an inch wide.

And even if you get the doors to close, the weather can just come in underneath the tarp. I saw this graphically during one of those 100% humidity rainstorms in Connecticut. I woke up feeling damp, and turned on my headlamp to see this huge stream of liquid air coming under the tarp, and up and over my quilts and hammock. Even if I were in a fully-sealed tent, I think I would have gotten wet that night.

As for keeping the wind off, I've always been of the opinion that cuben fiber tarps need as much air flow as possible - otherwise, you end up in a condensation nightmare.

Now,THAT is a very interesting post. There is a lot of useful info in that post.

In years past, more than once I have been told that if some one could not keep their down dry, they should not be in the woods. If the above had been on a longer trip, with little sun for drying, that might have proved challenging and the DWR of the shell would have become very important. And then there is condensation that might be an even bigger problem than normal if you are sleeping with 4" of snow over your TQ! Wow!

I am a bit of a fan of UQPs rather than larger tarps with doors( unless, of course, both. I have used a 10X11 rectangular in addition to UQPs for luxury). But, an UQP would not have helped your TQ in the conditions you describe. So t comes down to the DWR of the quilts, or the ability of the down(treated?) to shake off the moisture. Though, again, more of an issue on longer, cloudy/rainy trips than for weekend trips.

Still, that was some amazing weather. It managed to get past a large tarp with doors. Thanks for the report.

[Snaps]

I woke up feeling damp, and turned on my headlamp to see this huge stream of liquid air coming under the tarp, and up and over my quilts and hammock.

A UQP that attaches to the inside walls of your tarp, perhaps...!

MikekiM... as silly as it would be to add weighty bits after spending the money on a UL tarp, a cheap possible fix would be to cut filler strips from Tyvek to run down the door gaps, top to bottom. One big grommet at the top could connect to your tarp ridgeline, two small grommets for the door toggles, and two more at the bottom for the guy lines.

I don't know whether putting them inside or outside the doors would be best--probably inside--but they could close the gaps and come along in your pack if you suspect inclement weather. If you came up with a shape that works, you could even make some more from CF scraps and add lightness. Think grizz beaks on a much slimmer scale.

[MikekiM]

Interesting idea Snaps..

I don't think it's necessary that I go that far. If weather is looking foul the taller pitch would remedy the problem. I've wanted to try the double door hook from Zpacks so maybe that will be in my future.

That said... The doors are taking back seat to a much bigger issue with the tarp.

Last night I used it for the first time since buying it from a member here last year. I've had it up previously, but never spend the night under it as far as I can remember. Hung in my backyard hammock lab last light and awoke around 2am to the sound of rain drops. I love sleeping under the tarp when it's raining so I just rolled over and nodded off.

The rain got really heavy so I got up to close the doors... which of course, didn't close fully because I had my normal wide pitch.

The good news is with the rain as hard as it was, I had no water issues from head, foot or sides.

The bad news is... There is a REALLY bad leak from the ridge seam. Dripping pretty bad. I had the choice of bailing to the house, but that would have been the wimpy thing to do. So I stayed. Fortunately I use a synthetic top quilt and even more fortunate that it was 73F, so I just let the water drip on my chest and went back to sleep.

I'm not sure of the best course of action. I can tape the seam the entire seam... I can tape the section where I think it is leaking from (hard to be sure given how water travels).. I can send it back to HG and let them resolve it.

Such are the risks of buying used.

[m00ch]

I unfortunately can’t help you with the leak but I have a couple of those Zpacks double door hooks. If you want to try them let me know.


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[BillyBob58]

That said... The doors are taking back seat to a much bigger issue with the tarp.

Last night I used it for the first time since buying it from a member here last year. I've had it up previously, but never spend the night under it as far as I can remember. Hung in my backyard hammock lab last light and awoke around 2am to the sound of rain drops. I love sleeping under the tarp when it's raining so I just rolled over and nodded off.

The rain got really heavy so I got up to close the doors... which of course, didn't close fully because I had my normal wide pitch.

The good news is with the rain as hard as it was, I had no water issues from head, foot or sides.

The bad news is... There is a REALLY bad leak from the ridge seam. Dripping pretty bad. I had the choice of bailing to the house, but that would have been the wimpy thing to do. So I stayed. Fortunately I use a synthetic top quilt and even more fortunate that it was 73F, so I just let the water drip on my chest and went back to sleep. ................................................

How did the synthetic TQ do? I guess it is hard to tell if it was only 73F.

[MikekiM]

Got a bit cool when the rain got heavy, but all in all.. I didn't need the TQ.

I had a 40F Phoenix under me.. vented at the head end

[Grisnakh]

Interesting idea Snaps..

I don't think it's necessary that I go that far. If weather is looking foul the taller pitch would remedy the problem. I've wanted to try the double door hook from Zpacks so maybe that will be in my future.

That said... The doors are taking back seat to a much bigger issue with the tarp.

Last night I used it for the first time since buying it from a member here last year. I've had it up previously, but never spend the night under it as far as I can remember. Hung in my backyard hammock lab last light and awoke around 2am to the sound of rain drops. I love sleeping under the tarp when it's raining so I just rolled over and nodded off.

The rain got really heavy so I got up to close the doors... which of course, didn't close fully because I had my normal wide pitch.

The good news is with the rain as hard as it was, I had no water issues from head, foot or sides.

The bad news is... There is a REALLY bad leak from the ridge seam. Dripping pretty bad. I had the choice of bailing to the house, but that would have been the wimpy thing to do. So I stayed. Fortunately I use a synthetic top quilt and even more fortunate that it was 73F, so I just let the water drip on my chest and went back to sleep.

I'm not sure of the best course of action. I can tape the seam the entire seam... I can tape the section where I think it is leaking from (hard to be sure given how water travels).. I can send it back to HG and let them resolve it.

Such are the risks of buying used.

Definitely something we're going to look at for you! In response to the doors not closing all the way, I'll talk with Stormcrow to see what we can do, but it is generally all about the angles you pitch it at.