Permanent continuous loops?

**Forbin** · 08-08-2019, 07:37

I’m checking out a new trail lair and noticed an option for permanent continuous loops (crafted with through channel)

I’m not sure what that means exactly but it sounds cool.

I would think I want the ability to swap a continuous loop if it gets damaged. The ones I have now are starting to show some wear.

So, does anyone have this style? Pros and cons?

**cmoulder** · 08-08-2019, 07:49

I assume they mean the CL is spliced after it has been threaded through the channel, vs larkshead as would be done with regular CL.

Assuming this is correct, if you know how to splice (and it ain't rocket surgery

) you can do this yourself when replacement time comes.

But personally I don't see any real value/advantage in this, but maybe (or likely?) Jared has come with something that offers a real benefit... that he thought enough of it to offer it as an option suggests this might be the case. So we need to see exactly how it is done.

**rweb82** · 08-08-2019, 08:01

I believe cmoulder is correct. The permanent CL is just one strand of Amsteel passing through the channel, and then spliced together. I think the reasoning behind this is that the hammock ends aren't cinched tight, and are able to spread out a bit. In theory, this could help the entire hammock spread out better-providing a flatter lay. In reality, I'm not sure how much of a difference it actually makes, once tension is placed on the CLs. I have never used a hammock with permanent CLs before; but It's something I would try out of curiosity.

**DrPhun** · 08-09-2019, 15:48

Originally Posted by rweb82

I think the reasoning behind this is that the hammock ends aren't cinched tight, and are able to spread out a bit. In theory, this could help the entire hammock spread out better-providing a flatter lay. In reality, I'm not sure how much of a difference it actually makes, once tension is placed on the CLs.

I experimented with this with soft shackles instead of splicing the continuous loops in. I was hoping it would help with the calf ridge. I didn’t find much of a difference.

**bigdisgrace** · 10-09-2019, 14:03

Originally Posted by rweb82

I believe cmoulder is correct. The permanent CL is just one strand of Amsteel passing through the channel, and then spliced together. I think the reasoning behind this is that the hammock ends aren't cinched tight, and are able to spread out a bit. In theory, this could help the entire hammock spread out better-providing a flatter lay. In reality, I'm not sure how much of a difference it actually makes, once tension is placed on the CLs. I have never used a hammock with permanent CLs before; but It's something I would try out of curiosity.

Just received a new Trail Lair and I went with the permanent loops. I can notice the difference on the gathered ends that there is considerably less uneven bunching than with other hammocks I have. With the permanent loops the bunching is all evenly dispersed.

**rweb82** · 10-09-2019, 14:16

Originally Posted by bigdisgrace

Just received a new Trail Lair and I went with the permanent loops. I can notice the difference on the gathered ends that there is considerably less uneven bunching than with other hammocks I have. With the permanent loops the bunching is all evenly dispersed.

Do you notice an actual difference in how the hammock feels to you, with regards to calf ridge or overall comfort?

**bigdisgrace** · 10-09-2019, 16:06

Originally Posted by rweb82

Do you notice an actual difference in how the hammock feels to you, with regards to calf ridge or overall comfort?

IMO that's just the way Trail Lairs lay. If you go to the site and read the description on the Voyager, the triangle hoods help cut down on calf ridge. Trail Lairs have similar hood. When I lay inside my TL and look up towards the foot end the fabric folds are smoother and disappear quicker heading downward compared to some other cottage vendor hammocks I have. The new permanent CL's method just makes sense compared to conventional CL's

**Just Bill** · 10-09-2019, 14:30

Originally Posted by rweb82

I believe cmoulder is correct. The permanent CL is just one strand of Amsteel passing through the channel, and then spliced together. I think the reasoning behind this is that the hammock ends aren't cinched tight, and are able to spread out a bit. In theory, this could help the entire hammock spread out better-providing a flatter lay. In reality, I'm not sure how much of a difference it actually makes, once tension is placed on the CLs. I have never used a hammock with permanent CLs before; but It's something I would try out of curiosity.

Beyond simply not losing it...

Yar- messed with this a bit. You're pretty well correct... the tension tends to simply concentrate the gather again at the low point. Though you can play with it a bit if you're careful how you lay down.

Though Jared's cat cut hammocks may handle that slipping better... and there is another trick or two that I know he may employ to take advantage of this a bit so might be a legitimate improvement.

Spreader End .png

This was inspired by the 'mini spreader' some folks played with years back. https://www.hammockforums.net/forum/...hannel-Hammock

Going more extreme is more fun. Though you need to secure the spread in some way or it will also simply bottom out on your bigger loop.

What this more accurately does though is allow a shorter hammock to feel larger. If you picture the hammock like a canoe- and cut off the front foot or so- that's basically what you get.
Like a square stern canoe for a motor mount. That said- one goal of mine was to reduce weight and pitch size... turns out the fabric is lighter than the amsteel/bar/etc. And the ridgeline length doesn't get any shorter as what is happening is while you are cutting off the tip of the canoe... you are leaving the gunwhales intact so to speak. So nose to nose the hammock is still the same size at the end of the day.

There are some other uses to this trick- but at the end of the day I suspect that enough customers have requested to have the loops attached this way that Jared added the option.
Often a new option or 'improvement' is the result of a customer error/complaint.

I've seen folks tug the continuous loop out of a gathered end thinking that was part of taking one down... not a fun thing to fix in the field.

**HandyRandy** · 08-08-2019, 08:11

That’s exactly right. The loops are spliced on instead of larks headed on. I think it is ultimately not worth it. You may want to use those loops on another hammock some days. You may want to larks head a whoopie sling directly to the hammock some days. The biggest issue is when you attach a ridgeline to the hammock. It can be done, but all of the methods that I know of result in the ridgelines being fairly loose and can slip off of the loops adding some fiddle factor.

**cmoulder** · 08-08-2019, 08:28

Good points there, rweb82 and HandyRandy.

One other thing that has crossed my mind occasionally is that when a spliced CL is larksheaded through the channel it creates a larger radius between the Amsteel and the hammock material, and a larger radius translates to stress being spread over a larger area.

Perhaps real-life long-term implications of this are zilch, but maybe it matters for somebody weighing 270lb using 1.0 Hexon (yep, I've seen this!)