Tomorrow makes one week waiting on Z-Packs to respond to an email....

**NJHeart2Heart** · 06-12-2019, 20:17

What are you looking to buy? I bet you'd get some great ideas for where else to get that stuff from members here.

**infrastellar** · 06-13-2019, 02:00

Hi, just an idea. In case you use gmail account. Try another one. Sometimes I have problems delivering mails through gmail, for example with dutchware. I have had exchanged few emails with them, and suddenly they stopped responding. I found out that no more emails from my gmail account came to them.

**MikekiM** · 06-13-2019, 05:07

Originally Posted by cmoulder

Wow, sorry to hear this. Shades of the old Zpacks I first purchased from in 2012.

As you know, my friend Jimmyb got an Arc Haul that was so shoddily constructed that he ended up making his own and his missus'(!) packs. I've got the pics he sent me (somewhere on my HD) that demonstrated the heinously bad sewing.

One might wonder if they'll soon be selling out to a mass market biggie.

Welcome back!! Jimmyb and I swapped emails over the weekend. Thought that would be wise. Quest Outfitters has the webbing I need, but the 5/8" is too heavy duty than what we need. Jimmyb didn't have any around because he used 3/4"

Originally Posted by NJHeart2Heart

What are you looking to buy? I bet you'd get some great ideas for where else to get that stuff from members here.

I need a few feet of the 5/8" nylon webbing used for the hip belt clasp. There are tons of other vendors that sell webbing but I want the same weight as that which is used by Z-Packs. Hard to buy this stuff without being able to handle it.

I posted in the Donating Members DIY forum (because it isn't hammock related) and haven't gotten and responses.

Originally Posted by kardinal_emilus

Hi, just an idea. In case you use gmail account. Try another one. Sometimes I have problems delivering mails through gmail, for example with dutchware. I have had exchanged few emails with them, and suddenly they stopped responding. I found out that no more emails from my gmail account came to them.

I am contacting them through support@zpacks.. no problem getting an automated response from them so my email it getting through to them..

I sent another message this morning and got an immediate auto response. It's not urgent so I don't want to cry wolf.. but I did mark this one as ** THIRD REQUEST ** in the subject line. I don't mind waiting a day or three.. i get it.. but my first message to them was June 3rd.

Thank you for your email!

Our regular hours are Monday-Friday 9am-5pm EST and we are closed on weekends.

We are usually able to answer emails within 24 business hours on business days.

Due to the hiking season, we are experiencing delays in response time.

If your email is time sensitive, please re-send it with "Urgent" in the subject line and we will do our best to answer your email as soon as possible.

Thank you for your understanding.

**Just Bill** · 06-13-2019, 08:47

Originally Posted by cmoulder

Wow, sorry to hear this. Shades of the old Zpacks I first purchased from in 2012.

As you know, my friend Jimmyb got an Arc Haul that was so shoddily constructed that he ended up making his own and his missus'(!) packs. I've got the pics he sent me (somewhere on my HD) that demonstrated the heinously bad sewing.

One might wonder if they'll soon be selling out to a mass market biggie.

As someone who continues to struggle getting this cottage sewing thing from hobby to business.... I always respect what Joe was/is able to do in building z-packs.

That said the way he's done it has always been rough to put it politely. As one of the very few not only working with Cuben Fiber, but with actual access to it during the many shortages over the years Joe was spoiled by a fairly captive audience. His stuff has always been decent from a DIY/MYOG standpoint, but from a professional sewn goods point of view it's borderline atrocious.

His system is a very engineering minded one... he built gear on a simple home sewing machine or two with basic functional stitching. For what you'd buy a single industrial machine for, you can buy 4 cheapies and some folding tables and build them into a little plus sign shape of work stations for a little efficiency as you move each component from station to station. Reduces training time and skill level if you are plugging new folks into a single station.

Build one little cog at a time and eventually you get a decent sized machine chugging away.
Your customers assume that CF is hard to work with and somehow unique... and they got noplace else to go... so as long as widgets keep coming off the line why invest in better quality?
With a SUL minimalist mindset things like edgebinding or dressing your seams are out, and once those are out you're pushing form/function over cosmetics in general so the rest of the build quality slips too.

I understand building minimalist, but if anything my opinion and experience has been that what work you do needs to be quality and clean since you are relying on less of it to do the job. In many ways commercial sewing is overbuilt and clunky to speed production and reduce return rates. Edge-binding is heavy, but easy to apply with a specialty machine for example. People assume it's a 'mark of quality' but in reality it's just simpler to apply in an industrial sewing setting and many commercial shops would never roll a hem to finish an edge if they can avoid it. Some sewing shops refuse to do it at all... if what you want to build doesn't match the machine operations they use... it ain't getting built.

While lots of folks assumed that the quality might mature with the business... there's really no incentive for that to be the case. He's got pretty serious brand recognition, his prices remain acceptable and he's become a first stop shop for UL backpacking gear. If you're getting going on the hobby; the issues are not that apparent off the bat. Many first time thru-hikers watch last years Vlog from an equally clueless first timer, and then produce their own Vlog that the next first timer watches. Zpacks gobbles that crowd up. Most folks tend to move on from them after a few years as they replace or upgrade their stuff... or mature from thru-hiking to a more general outdoors/backpacking knowledge base.

The customer service thing has always been odd. I don't know if it's just a 'fend for yourself' long distance hiker mentality... or just that his efforts look so shabby compared to the bend over backwards, do a cartwheel, triple backflip, hold your hand and rub your back level of customer service you get from hammock vendors or some small backpack vendors who have arrived on the scene over this last decade. While I think many cottage guys go way overboard (and perhaps put themselves into a bad spot regarding unrealistic customer expectation/demand)...zpacks goes way underboard with their don't call us unless someone died plan. It's a 'cottage place' in origin, but at this point it's more the walmart of Cuben Fiber gear.

Anyway- not any help really I suppose.
Other than to point out- it is what it is with them.
Things are working for Joe and I don't see why he'd change them. If he did sell it, I'm not sure who would buy it. The name has value but from a sewing shop point of view it's a pretty rough place.

I'm not sure what the employee mix is these days, but for a time he did employ quite a few full time hikertrash who rolled in and out based upon hiking season. So 'hiking season' may simply mean that he's way down on staff because he employs so many seasonal people.

It is further annoying that he doesn't really sell DIY/MYOG stuff anymore as a result... probably just not worth putting limited bodies on low margin stuff when they could be sewing packs or shelters. A few years ago you could have logged on and simply bought a few yards of the webbing you're looking for out of his materials section.
https://zpacks.com/products/replacem...bbing-1-2-x-30

I see this, but sounds like it's not the size you're looking for. At least before with his materials available for sale you could fend for yourself... but that is getting harder to do. As you note you could sample 20 webbings at nearly the cost of a new pack before you found a match.

Good luck Micheal...

**Dutch** · 06-13-2019, 13:41

That half inch webbing pictured above is easy. I designed it for z-pack and have a good supply of it.

**jeff-oh** · 06-13-2019, 14:10

Thank you Just Bill for the perspective.

**Just Bill** · 06-13-2019, 14:41

Originally Posted by Dutch

That half inch webbing pictured above is easy. I designed it for z-pack and have a good supply of it.

I thought that looked like yours- do you carry the 5/8" though?
Admittedly I took a quick look for Micheal and only saw the half inch or I would have mentioned it as a likely candidate.

**cmc4free** · 06-13-2019, 14:47

There's 5/8" in polyester...

https://dutchwaregear.com/product/5-...ester-webbing/

**Just Bill** · 06-13-2019, 15:27

Originally Posted by cmc4free

There's 5/8" in polyester...

https://dutchwaregear.com/product/5-...ester-webbing/

HMM.. that's not the varied weave ribbed one though?
https://dutchwaregear.com/product/1-...ester-webbing/

That was the distinctive detail I noticed on the zpacks stuff that made me think of Dutch's.

Might not be a deal breaker for extending a strap- but Dutch would know best.

Ideally Zpacks would just get back to him but if they are sourcing it from Dutch- might as well just get it from Dutch and cut out the unresponsive middle man.

**Dutch** · 06-13-2019, 16:33

Originally Posted by Just Bill

HMM.. that's not the varied weave ribbed one though?
https://dutchwaregear.com/product/1-...ester-webbing/

That was the distinctive detail I noticed on the zpacks stuff that made me think of Dutch's.

Might not be a deal breaker for extending a strap- but Dutch would know best.

Ideally Zpacks would just get back to him but if they are sourcing it from Dutch- might as well just get it from Dutch and cut out the unresponsive middle man.

I updated the photo.