UQP vs increasing warmth

[BillyBob58]

In the hot summer month I will forgo the quilt and sometimes just use an UQP. If I remove the UQP I get chilly, when I put it on I am not chilly.

I've found the same. I'm warmer when using it than not.

Also, windhsirts are not insulation, but keep you warm.

Sure. Same here. Unless my tarp can block 100% of the shifting wind so that it never touches my UQ, an UQP is going to make any UQ seem noticeably warmer.

If you prefer, you can say it does not make the UQ any warmer(although it might, by a few degrees, after all it is another small layer of fairly dead air), but rather prevents the UQ from becoming less warm than it's rating. But, still, it can feel noticeably warmer.

I have UQs that are 10 or 20 degrees warmer than my basic HH Super Shelter. But many times I have been hanging with either no tarp, or a high, wide pitch, at say 30F in a 20F UQ. It feels toasty until a big gust of wind hits, and then it feels cold at 30F(or even 40F) using my 20F UQ. I then switch to my HHSS, which I at best consider a 30F rating unless I add some clothing or something to boost it's rating. When the biggest gust of wind hits, it is irrelevant. If I am warm enough with no wind, I am still warm enough when the wind hits. I have put this to the test many times over the years. The wind can easily remove 20+ degrees from the warmth rating of an UQ used with out a tarp or if I am unable to get full wind blockage with my tarp, or if I can but the wind shifts, or if using a wide pitch. The wind can not touch the HHSS with or without tarp.

When I was still new to this game back in Sept 06, I found myself hanging from about the only(skinny) trees near where my tenting buddies wanted to camp. With that small HH stock tarp that is pretty wide open on the ends. I was right next to a lake, with the open foot end facing the lake where the wind came from all night, bouncing my hammock around. It was maybe in the 30s or 40s, I only know about the first night of the trip which was 22F, seemed not as cold(except for windchill) on the rest of the trip. I slept very warm all night, inside my bouncing hammock. I am pretty sure I would have froze in a 20F UQ, unless I had also had a wind proof UQP on it. As I did with my HHSS.

Of course, a bigger tarp with doors would have probably also saved me from that wind. If your tarp is big enough, and you don't mind closing it up and you can get it pitched close enough to the ground, and you don't mind the sometimes increased condensation you might get with it closed up, you probably won't need an UQP. Or, you can use a smaller tarp and or higher/wider pitches with any tarp, and still have total protection from the wind, wind driven rain and splashup, with a good UQP. Your choice, either way works.

[SLG45]

New member here, thanks for all the great info! I have read the forum on and off for the last 10 years or so, which is when I started dabbling in hammock camping. Just really getting serious about figuring it out now, as my early attempts then were not awe inspiring.

I know this thread is not super recent, but a search hasn't turned much newer up.

I was a bit cold last night, in my WBBB and JRB Graylock 3, due to the wind. My tarp just didn't keep all the wind out, and so I am really looking into UQP's and anything else that might help. I have been a tarp and tipi camper for a long time, but have not had these issues on the ground. I ended up having to close my tarp up so much that it was like sleeping in a bivy sack! Plus, my tarp for last night was not an ideal choice, so I certainly understand if a different tarp might have worked better.

As BillyBob58 said, is it a matter of bigger closed up tarp or an UQP? If I can use a smaller more open tarp, then the UQP is the way to go. If I need a bigger tarp anyway, then I'd rather skip the UQP. I prefer a more open tarp setup whenever possible.

How about a WB sock setup, vs a 2QZQ UQP? Do I really need the top cover aspect? How is the condensation?

Any more advice on this would be greatly appreciated.

[Dlrocm]

the UQP will help to block some wind which will allow your UQ to be more effective at it's designed temperature range. I like an UQP when it's windy and chilly, otherwise , I leave it home.

[cougarmeat]

Unless you are camping in winter, or at home where you want some privacy from neighbors or blockage of street light illumination (no place to rig a tarp), I’d think the sock is unnecessary. I’m saying that because I use a sock at home just for those reasons. Remember, the sock is NOT waterproof so you will still want a tarp. Fully zipped up, the sock is like a single wall tent environment and so subject to condensation in cold temperatures. But you do have venting options with zippers on one or both sides and the ability to keep it open near your head. But other than cold winter night, I’d use a UQP.

Though a tarp with doors blocks more wind, for me, the UQP is a tad more versatile. For example, on a day hike I might want to put it on if the breeze is a bit more aggressive but I don’t want to do a full (or any) tarp pitch with doors. And no matter how well you orient your tarp when setting up, the wind can always change direction. If the tarp doesn’t have doors, I’d always take the UQP.

[BillyBob58]

New member here, thanks for all the great info! I have read the forum on and off for the last 10 years or so, which is when I started dabbling in hammock camping. Just really getting serious about figuring it out now, as my early attempts then were not awe inspiring.

I know this thread is not super recent, but a search hasn't turned much newer up.

I was a bit cold last night, in my WBBB and JRB Graylock 3, due to the wind. My tarp just didn't keep all the wind out, and so I am really looking into UQP's and anything else that might help. I have been a tarp and tipi camper for a long time, but have not had these issues on the ground. I ended up having to close my tarp up so much that it was like sleeping in a bivy sack! Plus, my tarp for last night was not an ideal choice, so I certainly understand if a different tarp might have worked better.

As BillyBob58 said, is it a matter of bigger closed up tarp or an UQP? If I can use a smaller more open tarp, then the UQP is the way to go. If I need a bigger tarp anyway, then I'd rather skip the UQP. I prefer a more open tarp setup whenever possible.

How about a WB sock setup, vs a 2QZQ UQP? Do I really need the top cover aspect? How is the condensation?

Any more advice on this would be greatly appreciated.

Hey SL, it is exactly like BillyBob58 said. There simply is no better wind or side ways rain protection than a good UQP, unless you have a quite large tarp with doors, AND the ability to get a really good pitch on that tarp. You know, at least in my experience- though only with big tarps (11X10 rectangular) without actual doors, not really big tarps with doors- most of the time at least one side of my tarp is not pitched all the way to the ground, usually neither side is. Think about it: in a storm or heavy wind, we still usually want some stand up room and ability to avoid contact with the condensation on the inside of the tarp, so I rarely pitch a tarp as close to the hammock and ground as possible. But if there is 6" between the tarps edge and the ground, wind is coming under that. Now, it won't be hitting your UQ head on and sucking most of the warmth right out of it. But the air under the quilt will be moving around, and it will remove at least a few degrees warmth from your UQ. Or if you use a Baker hut type pitch, with the windward side tight to the ground, but porch mode on the other side, the wind will not hit your quilt at all(at least until wind shifts), but the air will be constantly swirling around under the tarp.

Unless you have a large tarp with doors pitched with all edges close to the ground- thus limiting head room- only a good UQP will give you total wind protection. And it can give you the same amount of wind protection with a smaller tarp and or a high, wide pitch. And if it is also water proof or resistant, it can also give you good protection from side ways rain.

Hey, since you have a JRB quilt, if they still offer it, consider the JRB altered Frog Toggs poncho as an UQP. It is designed to fit the MW UQs nicely, and if you don't mind a poncho, especially if not much rain is expected, this one item can serve as poncho/pack cover/UQP.

WB also used to make a poncho that also served as an UQP for the Ridge Runner(WBRR). It is sil-nylon thus totally wind and waterproof. It works great on the UQ designed for the for the RR, and has a bit of a loose fit so that condensation(if any) tends to run down into the bottom and outside the poncho head hole. It - like my HHSS under cover- is non breathable. It's loose fit has kept that from being a problem (with condensation) for me. But aren't you a VB user? If so, condensation in the UQP should not be a problem for you anyway.

Of course, the 2QZQ is a great one also, and comes in a version that can be used to pull a pad up snug against your hammock.

[SLG45]

Thanks BillyBob58. I ordered an UQP from 2QZQ last week, but there are just so many options these days, it is hard to figure which way is the most streamlined, multi purpose, value and lightest weight system.

I love hammocking, and don't see going to ground again by choice, but coming from an ultralight philosophy, ground camping will always be lighter than hanging, when you equalize the weather and desired comforts. I'm not trying to beat or equal my ground setup for weight, just trying to keep it reasonable and with as few moving parts as possible.

I just discovered simplylightdesigns, and their combo UQ and UQP. Looks pretty interesting, and may save the need for a separate UQP.

As long as it is cool enough, I will always wear VBL to bed, so condensation should not be much of an issue.

Has anyone bought the warmlite pants? Still holding off on them, but I may get them before next fall. Been using either frogg togg pants or just inexpensive rain pants. Sometimes no vbl pants, as my legs seem to produce much less moisture than the rest of me.

I looked for that JRB poncho UQP, but could not find it. The guys at JRB are great to deal with, so I will likely give them a call today. Thanks again !

[Gregori]

Have always wondered about the "relative" terminology here on HF in regards to warmth.

In my opinion, everything is about COMFORT. Better to be a little warm than a little cold. I don't go camping to be a masochist, see how much cold I can tolerate, how little sleep I can get, lose weight from calorie reduction. I go to ENJOY the experience! Not fight it!!

Comfort is EXTREMELY relative. One person loves 20* quilts at 20* and another is freezing parts off, and still another is venting because just a little too warm. Context is also important, winter camping vs summer, vs spring and fall. All different seasons with vastly different temperature ranges/conditions. Personal health and physical fitness also impact your "core body heat" as much as gear in most non-extreme weather conditions. Age also plays a factor.

I think the battle, as said before, is against HEAT LOSS. Insulation plus reduced convection loss is key. My short answer is "layers", which equates into multiple gear/clothing choices that make up the entire: Am I comfortable? question in regards to a systemic strategy.

For winter camping, I use a good base layer, sometimes a vest or fleece jacket, socks, some sort of head covering. I also add a fleece lap blanket to wrap up in, because I don't like the feel of smooth synthetic to sleep within. Add 0* top quilt and bottom quilt, UQP, hammock with top cover. A large tarp, well placed, particularily when winter camping, which I prefer, cuts the wind almost completely. All that gear has gone to negative 8* F. several times overnite, in a 20-25mph wind and I was WARM, not just OK, but WARM....

My first year hanging, only 3 years ago, I added, subtracted gear as I grew smarter, more experienced, more practiced with hammock camping. The UQP easily seemed to add 5-10* of comfort factor. The TOP cover on my hammock added about the same, the fleece, about the same. All those things added up gave me a huge confidence and comfort boost to my camping enjoyment.

This past year I went all in and now have a huge tarp, with enclosed ends, more or less a hammock hot tarp/tent, which I do run a small wood stove out of for even more COMFORT. Winter camping is no longer about cold, but about the process of enjoying the outdoors, cooking good food, talking with other campers at our winter hangs, staying very relaxed, comfortable even in the deep woods with 2-3 feet of snow and sub-zero temperatures. And of course I don't backpack all that into the campsite, my homemade sled easily carries the load.

I would suggest trying a layering approach and see if you gain any relative comfort value from adding or subtracting gear. In the end, it really is all about individual subjective comfort. I hope you find the right setup that is correct for you. HYOH.


G