Cost to go UL

[hodad]

It’s funny how this tread morphed into a great thread concerning the cost and evolution of losing gear weight. My $.02 from 15 years being an obsessed backpacking dad and scouter.
I have learned and usually advise new backpackers, scouts, and scouters that volume is much cheaper to work on initially than weight; that the weight will follow. The 5-gallon bucket rule is great to start off with. If it doesn't fit in the bucket it doesn't come. https://sectionhiker.com/lightweight...lon-challenge/
Lightweight gear is much more is accessible now. There’s a plethora of on-line resources as well. You can buy a nice 800 fill down summer quilt from Anti-Gravity gear for $60 bucks (just bought one for my 11yo Scout); build a Costco down or a Ray Way (synthetic) quilt; build a Focky net for bug control, …
Gathered end hammocks and gear kits are easily built with resources such as:
https://thru-hiker.com/projects/
https://ripstopbytheroll.com/collections/all-fabric
https://dutchwaregear.com/
https://www.questoutfitters.com/
http://www.rayjardine.com/ray-way/Tarp-Kit/index.htm
https://stopreset.org/best-mosquito-hammock-reviews/
Entry level quilts with integrated bug nets are easily ordered off the internet, Amazon, etc. Heck, if you can’t tie a knot (knot a scout) Dutch bling has you covered.
I think most hangers can agree that the best place to start to learn the art of the hang is with Shug https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d7NZVqpBUV0. Back in the day we were lucky enough to have a book http://theultimatehang.com/ by Derek Hansem. Derek has come out with a Ultimate Hang 2.
Even Andrew Shurka uses a hammock when he can https://andrewskurka.com/. His works are also a great reads and highly recommended.
My son Q-Tip (trail name) and I started out our evolution building what we could around Hennesy Hammocks (the old Back Packer and Scout - enter from the bottom models) when he crossed over from Webs to Scouts. We started with DIY G-4 pack kits (thruhiker.com), Ray Way quilts, Tarps, poncho liner under quilts, DIY gather ends, Frokey nets, ... The DIY was interrupted by the occasional store-bought pack, tent, tarp, hammock, etc.
Our experience and venues morphed into at least one back packing trip per month between GA-VA, and lots of paddle trips in the black waters of SE NC, our beloved barrier islands and the New River. I currently mix a two-day trek into business trips about once a quarter. This has allowed me to take in several PCT/AT sections, some Colorado and New Mexico trails, National Parks and Caribbean treks. I do hope the next round with the scouts and my 11 yo will lead to even more adventures.
Beeeaar aware… Doditing hiking Dad ahead:
Q-Tip went on to a Philmont Scout Ranch Trek, multiple weeks at scout camps and then at 18 ish yo he worked as a Philmont Ranger with ~1k miles logged in one summer. Philmont does not allow hammocks and frowns upon DIY, so the boy had to go to ground. During his initial trek he carried a 60 L Osprey pack that was so weighed down the hip straps wore through and a GoLight Shangri-La 3 tent, which he shared with his trek buddy. I believe he probably ended up with a sub 10 lb base weight during his ranger work.
He completed the AT and 2 El Camino Santiago's with a 6 pound base weight. Though, really, the El Camino is more of a 600 mile bar hop than a thru Hike 😊
His AT hike included several pack changes, a WBRR, Z-packs CF tarp, and a 3/4 Z-rest for shelters/sit pad.
Back to me and my UL kit INCLUSIVE OF A WB Bridge and the cost of going light:
My kit is a 5-6 pound summer base with a WNRR @ ~$1300 spend over the last 15 years, not to mention the failures, getting the weight down. That’s a conservation $150-200/yr and not bad for our obsession.
This kit is posted on lighter pack . com. https://lighterpack.com/r/8d7es9
Disclaimer:
The list does not include clothing or expendables such as fuel, rain gear, food, water filter, smart water bottle (the Vargo Bot caries 700ml H20), toilet kit .... and finally the UL aluminum foil hat that keeps the day hikers from reading my mind 😊
I could easily add another 5-6 pounds for comfort items such a stool, small ground cloth, power banks,...
I switch from the ZimmerBuilt Quickstep to the Z-packs Arc Haul in the winter or if load needs increase.
Don’t forget Leave No Trace and USE TREE HUGGERS!

[oldpappy]

DrBrown, I live near and often (section) hike the AT in central/northern Va. You are on the right track getting the reasonably light hammock setup. The terrain here (Shenandoah NP area) is rocky and hilly - good tent sites are scarce but hammock sites are plentiful. Nothing wrong with using a CCF pad so you can go to ground/a shelter if needed, so also look into double layer hammocks. I do prefer an UQ for normal use, but a thru hike consideration may be the old school bullet proof Closed Cell Foam (CCF) pad or whatever pad meets your need.
The major cons of CCF are 1) bugs do bite whatever is not on the pad so I use a Fronkey style bugnet which also allows you to sleep without a TQ in hot weather and 2) some condensation in cooler weather but I use a camp towel,Shammy/bandana on top of the pad. There is a small learning curve to a comfort zone just like anything else.

Example: my synthetic 25F UQ is 20 oz. My 30"X36" 40F CCF is bulky but only 8 oz., is also used as a sit pad, doesn't absorb water, and attaches outside my pack.

Just something to think about when looking at insulation options:
Very light and very compressible = $$$$ and more care required (Down)
Reasonably light and reasonably compressible = $$$ and easier to care for (Climashield APEX 6.0)
Very Light but bulky = $$ bullet proof (Pads)

[CVKealey]

bug net (22 oz)

Hay Carumba! Almost a pound and a half for a bug net! Dutch's Bottom Entry (aka: Fronkey) bug net is just under 6 ounces and only ~$12 more than the ENO bug net.

[gunner65]

It’s funny how this tread morphed into a great thread concerning the cost and evolution of losing gear weight. My $.02 from 15 years being an obsessed backpacking dad and scouter.
I have learned and usually advise new backpackers, scouts, and scouters that volume is much cheaper to work on initially than weight; that the weight will follow. The 5-gallon bucket rule is great to start off with. If it doesn't fit in the bucket it doesn't come. https://sectionhiker.com/lightweight...lon-challenge/
Lightweight gear is much more is accessible now. There’s a plethora of on-line resources as well. You can buy a nice 800 fill down summer quilt from Anti-Gravity gear for $60 bucks (just bought one for my 11yo Scout); build a Costco down or a Ray Way (synthetic) quilt; build a Focky net for bug control, …
Gathered end hammocks and gear kits are easily built with resources such as:
https://thru-hiker.com/projects/
https://ripstopbytheroll.com/collections/all-fabric
https://dutchwaregear.com/
https://www.questoutfitters.com/
http://www.rayjardine.com/ray-way/Tarp-Kit/index.htm
https://stopreset.org/best-mosquito-hammock-reviews/
Entry level quilts with integrated bug nets are easily ordered off the internet, Amazon, etc. Heck, if you can’t tie a knot (knot a scout) Dutch bling has you covered.
I think most hangers can agree that the best place to start to learn the art of the hang is with Shug https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d7NZVqpBUV0. Back in the day we were lucky enough to have a book http://theultimatehang.com/ by Derek Hansem. Derek has come out with a Ultimate Hang 2.
Even Andrew Shurka uses a hammock when he can https://andrewskurka.com/. His works are also a great reads and highly recommended.
My son Q-Tip (trail name) and I started out our evolution building what we could around Hennesy Hammocks (the old Back Packer and Scout - enter from the bottom models) when he crossed over from Webs to Scouts. We started with DIY G-4 pack kits (thruhiker.com), Ray Way quilts, Tarps, poncho liner under quilts, DIY gather ends, Frokey nets, ... The DIY was interrupted by the occasional store-bought pack, tent, tarp, hammock, etc.
Our experience and venues morphed into at least one back packing trip per month between GA-VA, and lots of paddle trips in the black waters of SE NC, our beloved barrier islands and the New River. I currently mix a two-day trek into business trips about once a quarter. This has allowed me to take in several PCT/AT sections, some Colorado and New Mexico trails, National Parks and Caribbean treks. I do hope the next round with the scouts and my 11 yo will lead to even more adventures.
Beeeaar aware… Doditing hiking Dad ahead:
Q-Tip went on to a Philmont Scout Ranch Trek, multiple weeks at scout camps and then at 18 ish yo he worked as a Philmont Ranger with ~1k miles logged in one summer. Philmont does not allow hammocks and frowns upon DIY, so the boy had to go to ground. During his initial trek he carried a 60 L Osprey pack that was so weighed down the hip straps wore through and a GoLight Shangri-La 3 tent, which he shared with his trek buddy. I believe he probably ended up with a sub 10 lb base weight during his ranger work.
He completed the AT and 2 El Camino Santiago's with a 6 pound base weight. Though, really, the El Camino is more of a 600 mile bar hop than a thru Hike ��
His AT hike included several pack changes, a WBRR, Z-packs CF tarp, and a 3/4 Z-rest for shelters/sit pad.
Back to me and my UL kit INCLUSIVE OF A WB Bridge and the cost of going light:
My kit is a 5-6 pound summer base with a WNRR @ ~$1300 spend over the last 15 years, not to mention the failures, getting the weight down. That’s a conservation $150-200/yr and not bad for our obsession.
This kit is posted on lighter pack . com. https://lighterpack.com/r/8d7es9
Disclaimer:
The list does not include clothing or expendables such as fuel, rain gear, food, water filter, smart water bottle (the Vargo Bot caries 700ml H20), toilet kit .... and finally the UL aluminum foil hat that keeps the day hikers from reading my mind ��
I could easily add another 5-6 pounds for comfort items such a stool, small ground cloth, power banks,...
I switch from the ZimmerBuilt Quickstep to the Z-packs Arc Haul in the winter or if load needs increase.
Don’t forget Leave No Trace and USE TREE HUGGERS!

You give me hope that me Webelo will make to Troop! I hope to do these things with him but alas, sports are pulling him another direction.

[hodad]

Update for up and coming scouts: A Starting point Go Light, Far, and Often
Several years ago I did a scouting project aimed at making Ultra Light backpacking affordable for new scouts. I called it the $100 Scout. It included most items required for backpacking at less than $100. This was a great starting point for scouts. I've updated it recently and have been able to replicate it largely through the magic of Amazon. Paired with a light tent or hammock this kit is sub 8 pounds and could push 5 pounds easily.
The sleeping quilt is 800 fill down and will be comfortable to 50 degrees.
Items 92.5$ total 32.3 ounces
Summer Sleeping Bag (Quilt) $60 light weight and packable 17.20 https://antigravitygear.com/shop/pro...-55-top-quilt/
40L UL pack $19 12.7 https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1
Smart Water Bottle 0 drink and keep bottle 1.80
spork folding $7 titanium 0.60 https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1
aluminum pot/bowl $6.50 vol 40 oz. hobo pot https://www.amazon.com/Stanco-GS1200...WQR4NVZ0HDS0YE

shelter pending tent shared or hammock

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...7po/edit#gid=0

[cmoulder]

Update for up and coming scouts: A Starting point Go Light, Far, and Often
Several years ago I did a scouting project aimed at making Ultra Light backpacking affordable for new scouts. I called it the $100 Scout. It included most items required for backpacking at less than $100. This was a great starting point for scouts. I've updated it recently and have been able to replicate it largely through the magic of Amazon. Paired with a light tent or hammock this kit is sub 8 pounds and could push 5 pounds easily.
The sleeping quilt is 800 fill down and will be comfortable to 50 degrees.
Items 92.5$ total 32.3 ounces
Summer Sleeping Bag (Quilt) $60 light weight and packable 17.20 https://antigravitygear.com/shop/pro...-55-top-quilt/
40L UL pack $19 12.7 https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1
Smart Water Bottle 0 drink and keep bottle 1.80
spork folding $7 titanium 0.60 https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1
aluminum pot/bowl $6.50 vol 40 oz. hobo pot https://www.amazon.com/Stanco-GS1200...WQR4NVZ0HDS0YE

shelter pending tent shared or hammock

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...7po/edit#gid=0

Hi hodad,

Mega kudos for encouraging the lads to go light and for illuminating the way!

Maybe consider using Geargrams or Lighterpack for a more user-friendly and share-able gear list.

Also, keep in mind that the simple definition of base weight in the "official" UL context is Everything you are carrying minus consumables, which are food, water and fuel (and maybe sunscreen and bug repellent if you wanna get all über-UL-ly). One "grey" area is clothing, and my personal practice there is to count stuff that I don't wear once I'm warmed up and humming down the trail as base weight since I'm carrying it most of the time.

I hope you take no offense because I offer this in the most positive way imaginable, so that we ULers are all operating on the same wavelength.

[MikekiM]

Hey Hodad.. you can shave $5 off that kit with GSI plastic long spoon.. or the Walmart version.. or the REI version. It's under $2, easily reaches to the bottom of freeze dried meal bags, weighs 14g (the Walmart version is 8.8g), and won't transfer heat the way a metal spoon does.

Just a thought...

[OneClick]

I'm still wanting to hit that 20lb mark total for a 2-3 nighter. Can't seem to do it comfortably.

[rweb82]

I'm still wanting to hit that 20lb mark total for a 2-3 nighter. Can't seem to do it comfortably.

I agree. For a 2-3 night trip- with food and water, I'm still around 22-23lbs. The only ways to get any lower it seems is to start cold-soaking all of your food, and become a ground dweller with something like a ZPacks Plexamid.

[OneClick]

I agree. For a 2-3 night trip- with food and water, I'm still around 22-23lbs. The only ways to get any lower it seems is to start cold-soaking all of your food, and become a ground dweller with something like a ZPacks Plexamid.

I could cut my pack from 3.5lb to 2.4lb, but to me the pack isn't really a direct way to cut weight since so much has to do with the comfort. Just making numbers up, but if the pack is about 25% less weight but "half as comfortable", there's no point. So that's on hold. Cost-wise I'm looking at about $200, which is reasonable.

I'm doing better with taking too many extra clothes. I really don't anymore; everything is used and reused. That only leaves switching to 3/4 quilts opposed to custom or full-length. Not much savings there. I can skip the saw, but I like having at least the 6.6oz Bacho. Can't seem to break that 23lb pack weight, but that's still a reasonable 17lb on the last day.