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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by FastHamFreddy View Post
    I would strongly suggest an 11' x 5' hammock suggested by Phantom.

    From experience I tried to go the budget route, and it would have been cheaper just to start with a netless hammock from dutch, dreamhammock, warbonnet, or arrowhead.

    First night in my first hammock I realized the multiple seams running down the side of the hammock made it very uncomfortable, and impossible to lay sideways. Second hammock had no panels, but was only 48" wide and 10.5' long. Again, could not lay sideways, and the calf ridge is unbearable.

    I finally got myself a larger hammock 11'x64" and even though there are some things I dont like about it (again I tried to save some money) I have finally found a way to stay in it all night for the first time just this past weekend. It was also my first time trying to stay overnight in this hammock.

    Don't get me wrong, I know there are some here who love the budget route, and if you can make it work my checkbook and myself envy you. But I can say from experience, you will save time and money going for a decent hammock from the get go.
    It's not about trying to keep the budget down. I will take a ground setup (tarp and inner tent) as well as a hammock that works with that ground tarp (hex shape). The purpose of taking the hammock in addition to the ground setup is to 1) try out hammocking and 2) being able to sleep in the Jungle / very dense forest with lots of ground vegitation. I guess I will sleep on the ground 70% of the time but who knows it might flip But I don't want to optimize the whole system for hammock camping therefore and I don't want to buy a new tarp because the whole ground camping setup works really well as it is. So, like I said, getting a bigger tarp is therefore not an option in my situation.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by dakotaross View Post
    The tarp is rectangular? With middle tie outs? You may be able to rig it like this picture to get additional windblown coverage, which is all you're talking about when you have lengthwise coverage...

    Attachment 174070

    That would take it from "OK" to "very good". Granted, it encloses your space which is something I didn't like with a tent (besides hard ground), but would work in the rare instance that you actually need that coverage. If you're in the forest, and not on a windy ridge or open view or beside a lake, then you're not likely to get a lot of windblown rain.

    Regarding the hammock, a lot of us have a particular disdain for those who sell their hammocks under the guise of ultralight when all they've done is just use less material, and then charge you more for that "engineering". Besides the length, which is on par with other short hammocks that have been used without that much issue, its really narrow. I used a 48" wide (10' long) hammock for a while and I couldn't keep my TQ inside. I don't think there's any question that the Single+ is a much better option. You might try SimplyLightDesigns.com where you could get something more custom that has more relaxed dimensions but still fits well under that tarp. Jared, the owner, is great about discussing what your needs are and making you something that fits your needs. That's his business model. From what I can tell, the price would be similar to the Hummingbird but would at least have a ridgeline which I would think you would need for your "net".

    Speaking of that inner tent idea for a net, its making your total package weighty and unwieldy. I get you're trying to keep cost sane. Its real hard to say whether you need a net or not, but let's just say there's plenty of us who've gone netless because the need isn't there for where we camp. Being off the ground is big. I also find that if you're in an area that cools significantly at night, that the bugs are gone at night time. May not be the case in your area, but something to consider. You could take a headnet and your bag will provide the rest of the coverage (maybe a long sleeve Tshirt, too).
    It's a hex shape tarp... I should have written that into the OP Now I keep on repeating myself throughout the tread.

    So are you saying I should get a tarp that is wider than the Humingbird Single+ or what else would you change about it so that a custom hammock makes sense?

    Regarding the reasons for using the inner tent as a bug net: I have that inner tent with my anyway, see the post I made just above this one.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by guenni View Post
    It's not about trying to keep the budget down. I will take a ground setup (tarp and inner tent) as well as a hammock that works with that ground tarp (hex shape). The purpose of taking the hammock in addition to the ground setup is to 1) try out hammocking and 2) being able to sleep in the Jungle / very dense forest with lots of ground vegitation. I guess I will sleep on the ground 70% of the time but who knows it might flip But I don't want to optimize the whole system for hammock camping therefore and I don't want to buy a new tarp because the whole ground camping setup works really well as it is. So, like I said, getting a bigger tarp is therefore not an option in my situation.
    Quote Originally Posted by guenni View Post
    It's a hex shape tarp... I should have written that into the OP Now I keep on repeating myself throughout the tread.

    So are you saying I should get a tarp that is wider than the Humingbird Single+ or what else would you change about it so that a custom hammock makes sense?

    Regarding the reasons for using the inner tent as a bug net: I have that inner tent with my anyway, see the post I made just above this one.
    Sounds a little sub-optimal both ways if you ask me. Either need to be around trees where you could otherwise hammock, or use poles which can make for a less stable cover in wind (thinking thunderstorms).

    So you're not sure on the hammock, but given where you're going it makes sense? I mean, that's kinda where it all started for hammock camping - the jungle. Nothing beats being in a hammock on a sweltering night. I don't see the inner tent thing working well with the hammock, but could be used in a pinch, and you probably do want that protection. Have you tried it with any other hammock? Have you tried sleeping overnite in a hammock at all? I assume you'll use same pad and sleeping bag in the hammock?

    If you know the inner tent thing will work, you can go with a netless hammock like the hummingbird or get something custom for probably less $$ at SLD, depending on what else you get with it, some of which you're going to need anyway (like straps). What I mean by custom is that you can get a more optimally sized hammock - longer the better - which will fit under the tarp you have with sufficient coverage. Typically we look at the min tarp length being the same as the hammock since the hammock is not stretched end to end, but rather hangs at about 83% of its straight line length. So a 10' hammock is about 8'8", leaving a half foot on each end for coverage which is pretty std (you would have an extra 2" on each end with your 124" tarp). If you had doors on your tarp, you could get away with an even longer hammock.

    One option to consider is that you could get a netted hammock and use it as a ground bivy under the tarp. If that's more suboptimal on the ground, its purely optimal for hanging. SLD can help you there, too, and Warbonnet still makes their 10' blackbird. DreamHammock is another custom maker to look at as well. Not sure what the inner tent weighs, but I'm pretty sure a netted hammock is going to weigh less than it plus whatever netless hammock you might get.
    "I wonder if anyone else has an ear so tuned and sharpened as I have, to detect the music, not of the spheres, but of earth, subtleties of major and minor chord that the wind strikes upon the tree branches. Have you ever heard the earth breathe... ?"
    - Kate Chopin

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by dakotaross View Post
    Sounds a little sub-optimal both ways if you ask me. Either need to be around trees where you could otherwise hammock, or use poles which can make for a less stable cover in wind (thinking thunderstorms).
    Sounds a little sub-optimal both ways if you ask me. Either need to be around trees where you could otherwise hammock, or use poles which can make for a less stable cover in wind (thinking thunderstorms).
    [...]
    Have you tried it with any other hammock? Have you tried sleeping overnite in a hammock at all? I assume you'll use same pad and sleeping bag in the hammock?
    I didn't fully understand your point about it being sub-optimal both ways since I would take the same setup except the hammock if I would go only ground camping and I can't think of a better system for ground camping. The tarp and inner tent have two poles which are not a concern even with extreme storms.

    Regarding your questions: I haven't tried this with any other hammock, I will first have to manipulate the inner tent to do that. I slept one night in a hammock. I will use a sleeping pad in there.

    On the idea of using a netted hammock as a bivy: I think it is an idea worth considering but I have a few issues with it: 1) Since I don't have much experience hammocking it would be somewhat risky to optimize everything for hammocking in the sense that I might not like it. As it is now, the system is optimized for ground camping and I am bringing the hammock a) to try out hammocking and b) to be able to sleep in forests with lots of ground vegetation or very uneven ground. 2) I am not sure whether this would be lighter since the hammock would need to have a second layer that is waterproof if I want to use it for ground camping. A hammock is also about 40% longer than an inner tent (295cm vs 210cm). 3) Such a system would be suboptimal for ground camping in so far as it doesn't have a bathtub floor and doesn't create a "living space" (at least not as much a a dedicated inner tent"), some impressions I came across: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YdTdnbs4HzE 4) Would the abrasion through ground camping become a security concern for the load baring hammock at some point?

    And was there an argument at all why this system wouldn't work as well as a dedicated hammock (except for the length and width of the hammock which we have discussed already and I will just have to try out)? You said that you "don't see the inner tent thing working well with the hammock" but you didn't say why.
    Last edited by guenni; 04-14-2019 at 04:17.

  5. #25
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    Listen to the Phantom.Longer and wider hammocks are always going to be more comfortable;even for short people like me.Seriously,I doubt I will ever sleep in my 10 foot hammock again after experiencing an 11 footer from Dutch.I want the bugnet even in winter because it adds considerable warmth from my perspective.

    You also want an underquilt protector because,sooner or later,you're going to camp in an established campground on bare dirt and splash is going to be an issue.A 3/4 length underquilt is plenty in most conditions if you carry a small piece of reflectix like Shug does.

    Take as much tarp as you can carry.I like my Superfly 11 foot 20 D despite the weight because it gives me weather protection and something we never talk about much here,privacy.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by guenni View Post
    I didn't fully understand your point about it being sub-optimal both ways since I would take the same setup except the hammock if I would go only ground camping and I can't think of a better system for ground camping. The tarp and inner tent have two poles which are not a concern even with extreme storms.

    Regarding your questions: I haven't tried this with any other hammock, I will first have to manipulate the inner tent to do that. I slept one night in a hammock. I will use a sleeping pad in there.

    On the idea of using a netted hammock as a bivy: I think it is an idea worth considering but I have a few issues with it: 1) Since I don't have much experience hammocking it would be somewhat risky to optimize everything for hammocking in the sense that I might not like it. As it is now, the system is optimized for ground camping and I am bringing the hammock a) to try out hammocking and b) to be able to sleep in forests with lots of ground vegetation or very uneven ground. 2) I am not sure whether this would be lighter since the hammock would need to have a second layer that is waterproof if I want to use it for ground camping. A hammock is also about 40% longer than an inner tent (295cm vs 210cm). 3) Such a system would be suboptimal for ground camping in so far as it doesn't have a bathtub floor and doesn't create a "living space" (at least not as much a a dedicated inner tent"), some impressions I came across: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YdTdnbs4HzE 4) Would the abrasion through ground camping become a security concern for the load baring hammock at some point?

    And was there an argument at all why this system wouldn't work as well as a dedicated hammock (except for the length and width of the hammock which we have discussed already and I will just have to try out)? You said that you "don't see the inner tent thing working well with the hammock" but you didn't say why.
    I guess some of my commentary is based on not knowing the specific detail of how you intend to use the inner tent, as well as my own perception of ground camping which I obviously don’t do much of anymore. I understand you have equipment that you’re most comfortable with and unless you’re willing to go all out to make the hammock set up work most optimally for you, then agree you should go with what your experienced with as your primary setup. I think if you could share the specific details of how you intend to use the inner tent that you’ll get some good ideas here of how to and how not to rig it.

    Since I don’t know how well the inner tent might work as rigged, it just seems to make sense to me to get a netted hammock that is more optimal for hanging, even if it means taking both it and the inner tent for ground use. If truly in a buggy jungle, I get the living space issue for using the hammock as a bivy , but consider that hanging out in a hammock can be a lot more satisfying than sitting crosslegged on the ground despite what might seem like less living space. Especially if it’s hard to find flat ground conditions.

    Again, I think the hummingbird single plus is a reasonable option for what you’re proposing, though as five tango is suggesting it would be better to get as large as you can and comfortable under your tarp. This is why I suggest going to a custom maker to discuss what should work size-wise. However, I think you should be good with any std 10’ hammock, with or without net, the latter often being less than what the hummingbird goes for.


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    "I wonder if anyone else has an ear so tuned and sharpened as I have, to detect the music, not of the spheres, but of earth, subtleties of major and minor chord that the wind strikes upon the tree branches. Have you ever heard the earth breathe... ?"
    - Kate Chopin

  7. #27
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    I want to add that the difference in comfort for a small hammock vs a larger one is more one of annoyance to me rather than discomfort, my opinion anyway. I don’t think we’re trying to say that you won’t be more comfortable than on the ground in a smaller hammock as much as trying to steer you to a better overall purchase that would still fit with your tarp.

    Clearly there is a comfort compromise or else everyone would use the lighter hammock, though I worry we might be making too much of it. I’d certainly take the smaller hammock over being on the ground.


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    "I wonder if anyone else has an ear so tuned and sharpened as I have, to detect the music, not of the spheres, but of earth, subtleties of major and minor chord that the wind strikes upon the tree branches. Have you ever heard the earth breathe... ?"
    - Kate Chopin

  8. #28
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    @dakotaross You asked how I would use the inner tent with the hammock. I would cut a circle into the food end mesh fabric and sew on a tube made of mesh which can be closed with a draw string. Since the hammock is longer than the inner tent I would make the tube long enough so that the inner tent matches the hammock in length when hung. Since there is a zipper at the head end, I have two sides I can open in order to thread the hammock threw the inner tent. I would then close the zipper on the head end and the draw string on the food end to fully enclose the hammock in the inner tent.

    You also said: "...as much as trying to steer you to a better overall purchase that would still fit with your tarp." THAT is all the discussion I would have hoped for. I want to know what the optimal length is GIVEN the 317cm long hex tarp I have. There has been very little discussion with respect to this specific question. Most seem to not have read my OP (i.e. what I am asking in the first place) and through out generic recommendations which I am sure will work for most people who intent to buy a hammock AND a tarp in order to go on a hammocking-only trip.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by guenni View Post
    @dakotaross You asked how I would use the inner tent with the hammock. I would cut a circle into the food end mesh fabric and sew on a tube made of mesh which can be closed with a draw string. Since the hammock is longer than the inner tent I would make the tube long enough so that the inner tent matches the hammock in length when hung. Since there is a zipper at the head end, I have two sides I can open in order to thread the hammock threw the inner tent. I would then close the zipper on the head end and the draw string on the food end to fully enclose the hammock in the inner tent.

    You also said: "...as much as trying to steer you to a better overall purchase that would still fit with your tarp." THAT is all the discussion I would have hoped for. I want to know what the optimal length is GIVEN the 317cm long hex tarp I have. There has been very little discussion with respect to this specific question. Most seem to not have read my OP (i.e. what I am asking in the first place) and through out generic recommendations which I am sure will work for most people who intent to buy a hammock AND a tarp in order to go on a hammocking-only trip.
    I agree, and that's partially why I've replied as much as I have. I don't think others' advice is wrong as much as I'd agree that it mostly didn't directly address your question. I think we all want to give you the best info and sometimes we feel like answering the question as worded only doesn't really solve the problem, at least as we perceive what the problem is. Its one thing for an experienced hanger to go down in size presumably for weight savings - ultralighters make lots of compromises - but its another when a maker implicitly suggests that a super-small-sized hammock is "normal" and that the "+" is somehow super-sized, leading to someone who doesn't know hammocks so well to think, "ok, I don't need 'larger' so I'll go for the lighter one". Doesn't leave us wanting to recommend them much. Leads us to want to make sure you know that the current standard is 11' in length.

    So, to answer directly, I would say the most common configuration for folks here is an 11' hammock used with an 11' tarp. Therefore, I would say that sort of ratio works - same length hammock as tarp. You'd get a little more coverage with a shorter hammock, but with potentially less comfort. The shorter you get, the more width you're likely to want for your diagonal lay. I think the Hummingbird Single+ basically meets those parameters and is a reasonable option, whereas the Single is so aggressively small so that I don't think anyone would recommend it. Its an understandable option given your intent for primary ground use, but at the end of the day, we wouldn't want you to come back from your trip thinking hammocks aren't that great because you tried to make do in such a small one.

    Regarding your inner tent configuration, sounds a lot like a bugsock?

    mosquito-defender-360_9008604957_o_720x.jpg

    Is there any structure with poles? I presume so. And I don't suppose you were going to add a ridgeline to the Hummingbird? If not, seems to me there would be potential for the net sagging on you. These are some details that a guy like Jared @ SLD could help you with. He can probably make you a 10'4" very light hammock for the same cost as the Hummingbird, plus he might have a few ideas on how to get the inner tent to work best with it. Or he may reiterate that you're better off taking the extra weight of a separate net or netted hammock. At the end of the day, if you do take to hanging, you may want to sell the inner tent, which might be harder to do if modded as you intend. Just some indirect thoughts.

    I'll just add that in a buggy environment, nothing is better than the classic bottom entry Hennessy hammocks. Modular nets and top loading netted hammocks are more susceptible to bugs getting in. Put a light inside the Hennessy to attract bugs to the (outside) top of the hammock, and get in through the bottom. They may also be available in your area more so than other products might, not sure. I believe their standard versions are 10' long, plus you get a couple of tarp options with it which would, of course, change the whole conversation here.
    "I wonder if anyone else has an ear so tuned and sharpened as I have, to detect the music, not of the spheres, but of earth, subtleties of major and minor chord that the wind strikes upon the tree branches. Have you ever heard the earth breathe... ?"
    - Kate Chopin

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