Why buy an expensive hammock?

[SilvrSurfr]

That is how i learn. I do appreciate your advice and help but i like to experiment and wanna find my own hang. Any feedback from your experience is great to have but experiences dont change math. Angles will always be angles. After now many years of bending pipe, its how i view things.

I understand what you're saying, but take the fixed ridgeline (possibly replace it with an adjustable ridgeline) out of a Hennessy Hammock and you invalidate the warranty. If you want to play, I'd suggest getting something like a Dutch Netless hammock, which you can buy with an adjustable ridgeline, and experiment to your heart's content. Chameleons are too expensive to experiment on.

I don't know Dutch's background, or Warbonnet or Dream Hammock's background. They're probably not electricians or math gurus, but I'm fairly certain they tested the heck out of those hammocks and went with a fixed ridgeline for a specific reason. I suspect the reason they went with a fixed ridgeline is so that experimenters like you wouldn't wreck a perfectly good hammock!

[OG Honey Badger]

I understand what you're saying, but take the fixed ridgeline (possibly replace it with an adjustable ridgeline) out of a Hennessy Hammock and you invalidate the warranty. If you want to play, I'd suggest getting something like a Dutch Netless hammock, which you can buy with an adjustable ridgeline, and experiment to your heart's content. Chameleons are too expensive to experiment on.

I don't know Dutch's background, or Warbonnet or Dream Hammock's background. They're probably not electricians or math gurus, but I'm fairly certain they tested the heck out of those hammocks and went with a fixed ridgeline for a specific reason. I suspect the reason they went with a fixed ridgeline is so that experimenters like you wouldn't wreck a perfectly good hammock!

Dude you seem pretty aggresive to be right, not sure why. At this point I feel like its turned from productive conversation to you just trying to tell me to stop ruining my hammock. So this will be my last reply and then I'll just have to leave as a difference in opinion.

RL are subject to the person using the hammock. Hang your own hang and dont worry about my comfort level. If you dont know the why or even how the math works on the RL and just take it for face value that its been figured out for you, then id hardly consider you an expert on them. You started off by saying my setup was wrong because of the distance between my walls. Then you said you cant get a good hang in your house, which doesnt make sense. Hanging a hammock from unknown values in random spots in the woods doesnt make experiments or finding your perfect hang easier. Nothing is any easier in the woods.

So far your only point that cant be proven wrong by simple math and physics is that I could ruin my hammock. However i can tell you this, the way my hammock is hanging right now has no extra stress on the RL. The simple can you twist the RL test works great for verifying that. My top cover attachment has plenty of slack with no stress on it or the attached zippers. I can see that by simply laying it and watching my fan breeze just move it all around.

I'm sure your an experienced hanger and have found what works for you, but so far youve given me wrong information and after proven wrong through math, you still felt the need to correct me....hang your own hang man and I'll do the same.

[cmc4free]

Trying to be constructive... You mentioned you got a new hammock and set it up for an indoor hang using a hang calculator, but found the fixed ridgeline to be slack. Is that correct?

Did you mention using a suspension system, or did you just attach the hammock continuous loops directly to the wall anchors? Regardless, I wonder, did you factor in the length of the hammock continuous loops into the suspension length input of the calculation? If those loop lengths were unaccounted for, then the total suspension length would be longer in reality than in the calculation, which could result in a lower than intended sit height and/or a saggy ridgeline due to steeper than 30° hang angle.

Some have reported that a brand new ridgeline can/will/does stretch and elongate on initial tensioning, as the braid of the cordage is pulled tight. This could have happened to you, but if the ridgeline is brand new and you've never gotten tension on it because of the situation we've been discussing, this seems unlikely.

[GreatBigDave]

Dude you seem pretty aggresive to be right, not sure why. At this point I feel like its turned from productive conversation to you just trying to tell me to stop ruining my hammock. So this will be my last reply and then I'll just have to leave as a difference in opinion...hang your own hang man and I'll do the same.

Please don't sweat SS's tone, he's a crusty curmudgeon and can come off a bit prickly. FWIW, he is trying to help.

I think you and I are probably similar in approach - my golfing buddy calls it analysis paralysis. When I started hammockery I read Derek's book, downloaded his app and studied hangles trying to calculate the best, most perfect hang. What I found was that nothing in this hobby is sure or absolute - hammocks stretch, straps stretch, even Amsteel will "elongate" until it's weave is set. My experience is that tree hanging is far easier than fixed point hanging (based on stands outdoors but similar constraints to indoor hang). There's just a lot more room to adjust and find the sweet spot than with fixed points.
For example: many of us hang foot end higher than head end which moves our center of gravity toward the head end of the hammock. Intuitively this will cause the head end hangle to be steeper than the foot end. This is not considered in the calculator but is squarely in the collective experience. There are more things in heaven and Earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy. We all find our way here empirically, not theoretically.

This does in no way invalidate your theoretical understanding of hang angles and heights and distance and tension but, I hope, will encourage you to temper the rigidity of theory with the looseness of the empirical sag. I am sure that your theoretical understanding will help you deal better with the edge applications (indoor hang, stand hang) as you develop a feel for a good hang.

Welcome.

[OG Honey Badger]

Please don't sweat SS's tone, he's a crusty curmudgeon and can come off a bit prickly. FWIW, he is trying to help.

I think you and I are probably similar in approach - my golfing buddy calls it analysis paralysis. When I started hammockery I read Derek's book, downloaded his app and studied hangles trying to calculate the best, most perfect hang. What I found was that nothing in this hobby is sure or absolute - hammocks stretch, straps stretch, even Amsteel will "elongate" until it's weave is set. My experience is that tree hanging is far easier than fixed point hanging (based on stands outdoors but similar constraints to indoor hang). There's just a lot more room to adjust and find the sweet spot than with fixed points.
For example: many of us hang foot end higher than head end which moves our center of gravity toward the head end of the hammock. Intuitively this will cause the head end hangle to be steeper than the foot end. This is not considered in the calculator but is squarely in the collective experience. There are more things in heaven and Earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy. We all find our way here empirically, not theoretically.

This does in no way invalidate your theoretical understanding of hang angles and heights and distance and tension but, I hope, will encourage you to temper the rigidity of theory with the looseness of the empirical sag. I am sure that your theoretical understanding will help you deal better with the edge applications (indoor hang, stand hang) as you develop a feel for a good hang.

Welcome.

Very well dictated my friend. I dont hold anything against SS i just fealt like after trying to talk with him through the post he was kind of in face about it. Course I could be wrong. I know plenty of people , including myself, who sound one way in written word, than they do in person.

In my original post i said this was all due to change and could be completely different in the field. I was just talking first impressions.

I think your golfing buddy would have a field day with me haha. However, id also say practice makes permanent. I practiced the "correct" way so i didn't have to re learn doing it from practicing wrong...however i still suck at golf so i think thats a mute point lmao.

But by your omission you have to admit, me changing the RL to suite my empirical sag whether or not it correlates perfectly with the theoretical RL length is really something innate to my own personal comfort. As you say, We all find our way here empirically, and thats really all we were kinda arguing about. I could be hanging wrong, but does it matter if its comfy? lol

My RL btw, now that i had a chance to measure it is 108inches. I'm not sure where to start or end the measuring of the hammock so idk if thats 83 percent or not. But it works for me in my house. Subject to change lol

[OG Honey Badger]

Trying to be constructive... You mentioned you got a new hammock and set it up for an indoor hang using a hang calculator, but found the fixed ridgeline to be slack. Is that correct?

Did you mention using a suspension system, or did you just attach the hammock continuous loops directly to the wall anchors? Regardless, I wonder, did you factor in the length of the hammock continuous loops into the suspension length input of the calculation? If those loop lengths were unaccounted for, then the total suspension length would be longer in reality than in the calculation, which could result in a lower than intended sit height and/or a saggy ridgeline due to steeper than 30° hang angle.

Some have reported that a brand new ridgeline can/will/does stretch and elongate on initial tensioning, as the braid of the cordage is pulled tight. This could have happened to you, but if the ridgeline is brand new and you've never gotten tension on it because of the situation we've been discussing, this seems unlikely.

That is correct. And no i did not factor that in. I am hanging with suspension system that came with it but i did not take that into consideration. I just put a 11 ft hammock in and ran with it. I already know im definitely off by 3 degree's since i put a protractor on it that i had with my electrical tools so that could possibly explain that.

My RL right now is measured at 108inches. I am not sure if that is too short or not...but it seems descent for my hang. I'll have to try more in the field and see if that RL ends up being good. Ive got it set so when i go on my trip in a few weeks i can mess with it more while in the field.

[cmc4free]

Like you've said, whatever is comfortable for you is all that matters. The main issue with a sagging ridgeline would be nuisance (ridgeline organizer hanging too low, bugnet droopy, ...) But you've solved that by wrapping the RL on a biner. If you did the biner wraps while in the loaded hammock, I'd say there's no way you could overtighten it to the point of risking damage. You probably know you don't want it to be guitar string tight, and as long as it's not, you're in good shape.

108" sounds close enough to me. If you do ever get decent tension on it, it'll likely elongate due to the braided nature of the cord and might end up over 110".

The reason some are saying it's trickier to get a perfect indoor hang is the difficulty in making adjustments. With a pair of trees, even though different pairs will always be different distances apart, you'll be working with adjustable length suspension and you can easily change the height on the tree the suspension sits at. With an indoor hang, depending on what type of anchors, there may be no way to vary the height, so the methods of adjustment can be limited, short of drilling new anchors. You may also be limited on max height, if working with low ceilings.

[OG Honey Badger]

Like you've said, whatever is comfortable for you is all that matters. The main issue with a sagging ridgeline would be nuisance (ridgeline organizer hanging too low, bugnet droopy, ...) But you've solved that by wrapping the RL on a biner. If you did the biner wraps while in the loaded hammock, I'd say there's no way you could overtighten it to the point of risking damage. You probably know you don't want it to be guitar string tight, and as long as it's not, you're in good shape.

108" sounds close enough to me. If you do ever get decent tension on it, it'll likely elongate due to the braided nature of the cord and might end up over 110".

The reason some are saying it's trickier to get a perfect indoor hang is the difficulty in making adjustments. With a pair of trees, even though different pairs will always be different distances apart, you'll be working with adjustable length suspension and you can easily change the height on the tree the suspension sits at. With an indoor hang, depending on what type of anchors, there may be no way to vary the height, so the methods of adjustment can be limited, short of drilling new anchors. You may also be limited on max height, if working with low ceilings.

Yeah i just check to see if i can easily bend the RL with my thumb and forefinger.

Yeah its definitely tough to move things around once you've drilled into your walls haha. My wife was cool with it in the play room but not if i hung it 10 times lol. But its useful for getting "close" to something ideal and experimenting so that you can learn how to make adjustments and what they do. This way i know how things work in general and have already gotten it relatively close so its less screwing around in the woods when i wanna be relaxing. Course messing with my hammock is kinda relaxing so....idk. been fun hanging with my kids....literally lol.

[GreatBigDave]

...But by your omission you have to admit, me changing the RL to suite my empirical sag whether or not it correlates perfectly with the theoretical RL length is really something innate to my own personal comfort...

Not an accidental omission.

As you say, We all find our way here empirically, and thats really all we were kinda arguing about. I could be hanging wrong, but does it matter if its comfy? lol...

Nope, adjust your theoretical understanding to account for your empirical findings.

[cmoulder]

That is correct. And no i did not factor that in. I am hanging with suspension system that came with it but i did not take that into consideration. I just put a 11 ft hammock in and ran with it. I already know im definitely off by 3 degree's since i put a protractor on it that i had with my electrical tools so that could possibly explain that.

My RL right now is measured at 108inches. I am not sure if that is too short or not...but it seems descent for my hang. I'll have to try more in the field and see if that RL ends up being good. Ive got it set so when i go on my trip in a few weeks i can mess with it more while in the field.

As long as you're not using a zip-in bug net or top cover it really isn't critical. If you are using a bug net or top cover, especially asym, a SRL that's too long can stress the zippers on the ends, and if it's way too short it could stress the zippers on the sides at the widest points (less likely, but possible). A bit too short isn't going to hurt anything.

That said, with my DH Dariens I'm not experimenting with anything because they are designed with very close tolerances and I'm not going to trifle with Smurf Magic.