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  1. #1
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    South Texas
    Hammock
    11 foot gathered hexon1.7
    Tarp
    11 ft winter dutch
    Insulation
    TQ and UQ
    Suspension
    Spider Straps 1.5
    Posts
    591

    Need Pattern, Modification, and Fabric Suggestion for long distance DIY

    I need to evaluate all of my gear, and decide if it's worth the cost to upgrade.


    Current Bag
    Backcountry Bed 600 Long (weights 2 pounds and 11 ounces)
    Modifying into a single TQ, cannibalizing extra down for the other DIY projects
    Reference: HF thread Backcountry Bed modification

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Down
    Cannibalized Down - X ounces Dri Down 600fp (available for MYOG filling)
    Reference: Goose Down 900fp, zero feathers from Amazon $65 per pound
    Beanie - 0.5 ounces
    Jacket - 4.0 ounces
    Pillow/Stuffsack - 0.5 ounces
    Balaclava - 1.5 ounces
    Mittens -
    Booties -
    Top Quilt -
    Under Quilt -
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Vapor Barrier
    Tyvek for ground lay and cold protection
    Can I improve upon this design? Would DIY have a cost savings or weight advantage?
    bivyback.jpg
    Reference: Tyvek Bag Cover - 135g - $11 from AliExpress
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Top Quilt:
    Karo style quilt, starting with 4.5 ounces of down fill
    Here is my spreadsheet for this top quilt. I'm unsure of the height, as I keep going back and forth between 70 and 78 inches for my 5' 6" frame.
    Reference: DIY Top Quilt Calculator Spreadsheet
    Reference: Costco Down Throw 2 for $50
    Reference: HF Thread Modifying-a-Karo-baffled-quilt-on-the-trail
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Underquilt:
    Karo style underquilt starting with 6 ounces of down fill
    Plan to stuff to 16 ounce fill when needed
    Is it too much a stretch to list the width as 62 when there's 63 or 64 workable inches in the wide?
    Reference: Sleeping Pad R Values (is an UQ needed)
    Reference: Underquilt Chart Matrix
    Reference: Differential Cut UQ Calculator Spreadsheet
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Beanie:
    beanie.jpg
    Reference: Blackrock Beanie Down Ultralight
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Balaclava:
    Slight modification to this pattern to have it extend further down in the front and back.
    Unsure the fill amount needed - 1 or 2 ounces?
    What is the best fabric to use for something like this currently?
    Would I want to have one membrane layer and one mountain layer like an underquilt?
    balaclava.jpg
    Reference: http://rob-thegreatoutdoors.blogspot...balaclava.html
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Down Jacket:
    I've always enjoyed how shug fastens his down jacket around the foot of his hammock. I've always wanted to have removable down sleeves on my jacket. I remember the sleeves being held by shock cordage in the back, but I'm blanking on who did the modification (it's been tough to find).
    jacket.png
    Reference: Whitney Down Jacket Plans at Thru-Hiker
    Reference: 8.5 ounce down hooded jacket Argon with 5 ounce fill at BPL
    Reference: Patagonia article discussing the amount of fill in each of their jackets
    Alternative: I own an authentic alpaca wool jacket. Together with a pair of alpaca wool socks, they weigh 420 grams (assuming the jacket is 350 grams of that). ThruHiker estimates the down jacket to weigh 8 or 9 ounces.
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Stuff Sack Pillow:
    A hybrid between a down pillow and a stuff sack.
    Fill with clothes to create pillow size desired.
    Down pocket sewed into stuff sack for pillow "face"
    Pillow Stuff Sack.jpg
    stuff sack pillow.jpg
    Reference: HG Pillow (too heavy and not multi-use)
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Tarp:
    Lightweight fabric - 5 yards - 8.33 square yards

    0.51 Dyneema Composite Fiber weighs 4.25 ounces x 32 dollars = 160 dollars. (0.15)
    0.74 Mountain 7D weighs 6.16 ounces x 16 dollars = 80 dollars (0.20)
    0.75 Membrane 10 Ripstop weighs 6.25 ounces x 11 dollars = 55 dollars (0.29)
    1.10 Silnylon weighs 9.16 ounces x 6 dollars = 30 dollars. (0.36)

    These numbers show that 0.75 membrane and 1.10 Silnylon are the frontrunners for a budget tarp. Comparing Silnylong to Membrane 10, we see a 1.75 ounce drop for 25 dollars. The 1.25 ounce drop when moving to Cuben Fiber for an additional 100 dollars would be one of the very last upgrades that I perform (since there's not much savings for a good deal of money)..
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Grizz Beaks:
    Two versions to consider. Long connected or individual detached. The GrizzBeak2 aka SonOfBeak might work as a proper rain kilt for me. The rain kilt is 72cm by 177cm. Son of Beak measures 132cm by 132cm by 30cm.
    GrizzBeak.jpg
    grizzbeaky2.jpg
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Hammock:
    Lightweight single layer hammock - 11 foot gathered end
    3.5 yards of fabric = 6.3 square yards

    MTN 0.74 weighs 4.66 ounces x 16 = 56 dollars (0.38)
    Membrane SilPoly weighs 5.86 ounces x 7.25 = 25.38 dollars (0.67)
    1.0oz DiamondD ripstop weighs 6.3 ounces x 6 = 21 dollars (0.76)
    Hexon 1.0 weighs 6.3 ounces x 6.75 = 23.63 dollars (0.67)
    1.1oz Ripstop weighs 6.93 ounces x 4.40 = 15.40 dollars (0.94)
    1.1oz poly ripstop camo weighs 6.93 ounces x 6.25 = 22 dollars (0.66)
    1.6oz Polyester Ripstop Camo weighs 10.08 ounces x 6 = 21 dollars (0.47)
    1.9oz Ripstop weighs 12 ounces x 4 = 13 dollars (0.64)
    hammock.jpg
    Reference: HG Hexon 1.0 - $30 weighs 217 grams
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Suspension:
    Straps (purchased) - considering 8 foot 1.5 g/ounce spider (maybe longer)
    Evo Loops to connect hammock to straps
    Reference: Expensive splicing tool 1.6 ounce $22
    Reference: Cheap splicing tool 0.75 ounces $8
    Reference: Dutch 1.5 Spider
    Reference: How to make Evo Loops Youtube Video
    Reference: Hammock Suspension with Beckett Hitch Youtube Video
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Rain Pants or Kilt
    Very simple DIY - unsure best fabric or if it's worth the time
    kilt.png
    Reference :Rain Kilt from AliExpress - 8 dollars - 65 grams - 72cm x 177cm
    rain pants.png
    Reference :Rain Pants from AliExpress- 14 dollars - gear used by triple crown hiker
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Pack:
    Current Packs:
    Kelty pk50 (35L + 15L) - weighs 3 pounds 2 ounces
    REI Flash 30L - weighs 480 grams
    Ribz Front Pack

    backpack.jpg
    Reference :Most DIY packs follow this same basic pattern from DIYGearSupply
    UL50.jpg
    Reference :UL50 - 1 pound 6 ounces @ 80 dollars from MyTrailCo
    joeypack.jpg
    Reference :Joey Pack - 11.8 ounces @ 230 dollars from PalantePacks
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Is there any other MYOG that you would suggest for a Thru Hike of either the AT or the PCT?
    Last edited by Trambo; 01-12-2019 at 12:50.

  2. #2
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    South Texas
    Hammock
    11 foot gathered hexon1.7
    Tarp
    11 ft winter dutch
    Insulation
    TQ and UQ
    Suspension
    Spider Straps 1.5
    Posts
    591
    Fixed the value calculation of fabrics, I realized that it needed to be the inverse of the weight divided by the cost of the fabric. This is the calculation used to get the numbers in parenthesis by fabrics.

  3. #3
    Otter1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    FL
    Hammock
    DIY Hexon 1.0, Hexon 1.6
    Tarp
    HG Cuben Palace
    Insulation
    HG UQ's, EE TQ
    Suspension
    Dutch Dyneema/Poly
    Posts
    2,379
    I haven't looked through all of it yet but will come back to it. One observation: Looks like you used the square yard weights for your hammock fabric, rather than linear yard. a 3oz hammock wouldn't be big enough for anyone over 2.5' tall

  4. #4
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    South Texas
    Hammock
    11 foot gathered hexon1.7
    Tarp
    11 ft winter dutch
    Insulation
    TQ and UQ
    Suspension
    Spider Straps 1.5
    Posts
    591
    Quote Originally Posted by Otter1 View Post
    One observation: Looks like you used the square yard weights for your hammock fabric, rather than linear yard.
    Yes, I see what you are talking about there. I'm using the calculation as though each hammock was 3.5 square yards, rather than computing how many square yards of fabric that come when ordering a 3.5 yard length.

    Also, I understand that I'll have to order in full yard increments, but I was attempting to find weight and cost values here, so I was using the 3.5 yard number rather than 4. Doing the calculations for area, it's 5.83 square yards for a hammock.

    My calculations are a tiny bit off, because I'm using 10.5 foot fabric blank (which needs to be more to be an 11 foot hammock with gathered ends). I'm not sure how much extra is needed, but I'm going to assume that 3 or 4 inches extra is adequate. I'm using a length of 136 inches along with the standard width of 60 inches. Using these more accurate numbers shows 6.3 square feet of fabric for a hammock.

    At 6.3 square feet, the fabric could weigh just 4.7 ounces for a full 11 foot hammock. I now have to redo my calculations above to factor in real square footage.
    Last edited by Trambo; 01-10-2019 at 16:25.

  5. #5
    cougarmeat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Bend, OR
    Hammock
    WBBB, WBRR, WL LiteOwl
    Tarp
    OES, WL BullFro
    Insulation
    HG UQ, TQ, WB UQ
    Suspension
    Python Straps
    Posts
    1,543
    Balaclava: Nylon vs Down ... Although the down is compressed behind your head when you lie .. down .. it still keeps you plenty warm. Usually too warm for me, even on winter nights. I find a light weight nylon (or silk) balaclava works just fine, with the added ability to pull it over my mouth, and nose if necessary, without worrying about condensation build up. If I were going out for an overnight or two day excursion, I might bring the down hood - because I believe in redundancy, it packs small, and doesn't weigh anything. But I always have a nylon/silk balaclava with me because I've found myself in too many situations were unexpected wind appeared. Cold wind.

    Rain Kilt vs Rain Pants: I plan to get a Dutch rain kilt this year; I already have plenty of rain pants. The advantage of the kilt is modesty. I'm not shy, but I try to respect others. My mission in life is not to teach them (or their kids) that the "body is beautiful". If I'm kayaking and want to clean off in the water. I can wrap the kilt around me, walk in far enough and wash off to my hearts content. Even take off the kilt and drape it on an arm or shoulder until I'm ready to come out. The same with any changing of clothes. Just put the kilt on and then take off or put on whatever you want, giving privates privacy. You might have situation come up on the trail where you need to "cover up" and wrapping a kilt is a lot faster than putting on pants - especially if you have shoes on.

    In going through wet brush, it seems easier to just wrap the kilt around than fit rain pants over boots. Note that an outside pocket in your DIY kilt might be handy to hold a bottle of camp soap.

    Down Jacket: There is already a Down vs synthetic thread in the Forum. I am a fan of down - usually. But I live in a high desert. My dealings with rain are by reading about it. If I were going to do a "thru hike" I would use a synthetic for the jacket because - unlike a TQ/UQ that is (or should be) only exposed under a tarp - the jacket is "outside" wear. It is going to suffer rain sprinkles before you get your rain gear on. Moisture from your sweat and moisture from your outer shell. Remember, if are working, you will get wet with Gore-Tex type materials, just not as wet as fully non-breathable gear. In the winter, with only snow to worry about, or in the spring/summer as a breakfast jacket before the sun starts doing it's job, on a short adventure (measured in days, not weeks, I'm more likely to use the down jacket. But if there is any question about rain - ESPECIALLY if I may be in the rain for days without an opportunity dry things out, I'd go synthetic.

    As far and UQ/TQ - I don't want to start another down vs synthetic debate here.

    I know there is a tendency to focus on UltraLite (another forum debate). I'm guessing you've seen the movie, "Wild". I hike the Oregon PCT about that same time. Yes, our packs were that big (but not filled with the junk the movie showed) and our boots were that heavy. And we LIKED IT! The point is, if you are not trying to set some record for miles per day, you can afford a little more weight. When I see "ultralite" fabrics I'm concerned about durability. To me, they are fine for some record setting weekend. Used when you have a bail-out option for repairs. But do consider that you will be using this gear every day and you will probably have few repair options if something breaks/tears. There are all kinds of testimonies about how wonderful a light weight pack is. And it is - until something fails. So put a little "ruggedness" into the design calculations.

    When I did the Oregon PCT, I was a novice hiker. I had climbed mountains but 10 miles was about my longest hike. My "weight saving" feature was to use a Gore-Tex bivi bag with a hoop that kept the head part off my face. I was used to tents with rainfly so the concept of a separate tarp didn't occur to me. If it rained, I was either out in it, or dry in my bivi. Fortunately, I was a young whippersnapper and laughed at cold, soaked in glacier pools, etc. And it was great summer. Very little rain and very mild temperatures. My daily hiking outfit was a tee-shirt (yes, cotton - to cool me off when wet), nylon gym shorts, and boots. By the time I reached Mt. Hood (South to North) I had to throw the tee-shirt away because even though I could get clean in a cold water shower for a quarter at Timberline Lodge - the Tee-Shirt couldn't. As a courtesy gesture to the rest of the population, the original tee-shirt went in the trash. I must have had a spare or bought another at the lodge to finish the trip.

    I envy your DIY options.
    Last edited by cougarmeat; 01-11-2019 at 22:03.

  6. #6
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    South Texas
    Hammock
    11 foot gathered hexon1.7
    Tarp
    11 ft winter dutch
    Insulation
    TQ and UQ
    Suspension
    Spider Straps 1.5
    Posts
    591
    For the Balaclava, I'm also looking for something that I can use in horrible winter weather while hiking, but also to give extra warmth while sleeping. I'm thinking that some high tech fabric and decent down would keep it pretty packable. The question here is would having a hood like this on a thru hike be most of a waste?

    As for the rain kilt, I can definitely see some bathing situations helped by that piece of gear. I was swayed by someone who used the kilt to mainly keep the stinging nettles off his legs. I'm trying to figure if it's worth purchasing a kilt, or to make one myself. Can we benefit from using some newer fabric? Dutch uses argon sil for his kilt, which weighs 80 grams. The chinese import is 65 grams and 8 bucks. I'm kind of wondering how much weight saving I can get by MYOG this item. That's such a hard thing to approximate.

  7. #7
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    South Texas
    Hammock
    11 foot gathered hexon1.7
    Tarp
    11 ft winter dutch
    Insulation
    TQ and UQ
    Suspension
    Spider Straps 1.5
    Posts
    591
    Quote Originally Posted by cougarmeat View Post

    Down Jacket: There is already a Down vs synthetic thread in the Forum. I am a fan of down - usually. But I live in a high desert. My dealings with rain are by reading about it. If I were going to do a "thru hike" I would use a synthetic for the jacket because - unlike a TQ/UQ that is (or should be) only exposed under a tarp - the jacket is "outside" wear. It is going to suffer rain sprinkles before you get your rain gear on. Moisture from your sweat and moisture from your outer shell. Remember, if are working, you will get wet with Gore-Tex type materials, just not as wet as fully non-breathable gear. In the winter, with only snow to worry about, or in the spring/summer as a breakfast jacket before the sun starts doing it's job, on a short adventure (measured in days, not weeks, I'm more likely to use the down jacket. But if there is any question about rain - ESPECIALLY if I may be in the rain for days without an opportunity dry things out, I'd go synthetic.
    Thanks for your reply about this subject. You bring up some good points. I already have an Outdoor Research Helium II rain shell. You've cued on a very good conversation point. I was looking at the synthetic insulation offered by Dutch, and you've got to use 30% more (by weight) to equal to the warming power of down. Of course 30% additional in a jacket isn't that much added weight, but then compression becomes a factor. I'm still considering synthetic insulation, but I wonder if the weight and bulk are more detractors than insulating while wet.

    Actually, I've never seen the movie "Wild". You've now piqued my interest. The debate between weight and durability is a very interesting debate. My camping history has rugged background. Most of my early experiences were in scouting and military. Both of these use bulletproof gear that weighs a ton. I've been in the middle of gear transition for a year or so, but I feel confident in my trail abilities and my knowledge of how to protect and repair my gear.

    Oh, don't be too star struck by my DIY options. My eyes are bigger than my wallet. Upgrading several parts of my gear will make large strides in being comfortable while hiking. This thread's purpose is to discuss the options that I have, so that I can decide where my money is best spent. I'm not going to spend hundreds of dollars just to drop a couple of ounces. That wouldn't be worth it, but there are many upgrades that I can do for substantial savings at this point. Also, I'm not on a myog craze or anything. I'm not afraid of purchasing items because it's a time savings or better quality than I can make myself.
    Last edited by Trambo; 01-10-2019 at 17:45.

  8. #8
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    South Texas
    Hammock
    11 foot gathered hexon1.7
    Tarp
    11 ft winter dutch
    Insulation
    TQ and UQ
    Suspension
    Spider Straps 1.5
    Posts
    591
    I just finished modifying a Static V Ultralight pad. I dropped it from around 12 ounces to around 4 ounces in weight. I feel this pad came out great for someone who is a side sleeper.

  9. #9
    Senior Member Monkeyboy42's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Location
    Salisbury, md
    Hammock
    DIY gathered end
    Tarp
    DIY silpoly 11x10
    Insulation
    DIY down TQ, WL UQ
    Suspension
    cinch buckles
    Posts
    691
    What kind of tarp are you making with 5 yards of fabric? The only possible design would be an asymmetric, which needs around 4 yard. A hex takes a minimum of 7 yards, but you are talking about grizz beaks, which are designed for a hex right?

  10. #10
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    South Texas
    Hammock
    11 foot gathered hexon1.7
    Tarp
    11 ft winter dutch
    Insulation
    TQ and UQ
    Suspension
    Spider Straps 1.5
    Posts
    591
    Quote Originally Posted by Monkeyboy42 View Post
    What kind of tarp are you making with 5 yards of fabric? The only possible design would be an asymmetric, which needs around 4 yard. A hex takes a minimum of 7 yards, but you are talking about grizz beaks, which are designed for a hex right?
    Thanks Monkey, you're right. I don't know where I got the 5 from. I looked at the two kits that I was referencing, and they are 7 and 8 yards each. That's another of my calculations that's quite far off (but looking at the weight versus cost value is still the same ratio - just more square feet).

    8 yards = 13.33 square yards

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