Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast
Results 11 to 20 of 27
  1. #11
    Senior Member BillyBob58's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Tupelo, MS
    Posts
    11,108
    Images
    489
    Quote Originally Posted by redkyte510 View Post
    .................................................. ............
    A side question is, I have heard tell of a tool/spreadsheet somewhere on here that allows one to calculate the loft requriements of a quilt for a given temperature range. Can anyone point me to this resourse please?

    TIA

    Red Kyte
    I forgot to respond to this part of your question in my previous post. I think a lot of people do not realize this fact, even think the opposite:

    You can not directly compare the insulation values of different materials by comparing the loft. This will seem obvious if you think in terms a a closed cell foam pad. A 1" thick CCF pad might be good to the teens, even in hammock. Imagine trying to do the teens in a 1" thick down quilt? Many people here have used 0.5" Walmart Blue pads OK down into, I don't remember, maybe the low 40s or high 30s, even in a hammock? Again, try to imagine doing that with 1/2" down loft UQ. Even pads are different: That 1" CCF pad some have used to the low 20s or teens has an R value around 4.3, a 1" thick Thermarest Prolight 3 has R value of 2.3, probably good no lower than the high 40s in a hammock.
    But what about quilt material and warmth vs thickness? That CS XP Yeti I mentioned in my 1st post, that one guy(a warm sleeper) here used repeatedly below zero? It probably only had about 2.4" of loft with that 10 oz/sq/yd CS XP. Again, no way 2.5" of single layer down is taking many folks to zero in an UQ, maybe 25F. Maybe 20F. ( Although people vary widely in how low they can take any given thickness of quilt.) But 2.5" thick down UQs are probably almost all rated to 20-25 for a good reason.

    My AHE CS Apex quilts only have, by my best attempt to measure, max 1.5" loft. These are conservatively rated at 25F, and have been used at that temp and lower by many people here at this forum. A 1.5" down quilt would probably be good to about 40F at that loft, assuming totally dry.

    So, point is: you can not compare warmth by comparing thickness of different materials. Just something to be aware of. If you have a down quilt of X weight besde a synthetic, it is always going to look much puffier and warmer. But looks can be deceiving.

    Quote Originally Posted by redkyte510 View Post
    rweb82,

    Another interesting point. I didn't realise that synthetic sleeping bags degrade so...

    I've had the same synthetic bag for almost 6 years and I haven't noticed the quality degrading at all.

    RedKyte
    I have certainly had synthetic bags loose some loft and it doesn't take that long. But, I find my older synthetic bags have not lost much more loft after that initial loss, even after many years. However, my CS XP and Combat Yeti has kept most of it's loft for 9 or 10 years. But it has not been stuffed all that much, so maybe with heavier usage it would loose more. With all of the AHE quilts used around here, we should have some pretty good info on how well they are holding up. Anyone? (mine are holding up great, but again: very light usage)
    Last edited by BillyBob58; 01-04-2019 at 19:33.

  2. #12
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Location
    Valpo, IN
    Hammock
    Towns-End Luxury Bridge
    Posts
    1,746
    redkyte-

    The calculator you want- https://www.hammockforums.net/forum/...=1#post1317305

    There were a few, if I remember the most accurate/current was Boston's modification of the catsplat original.
    Gadget made one too since you're in the UK- https://www.hammockforums.net/forum/...ilt-Calculator

    Here is my insulation chart- https://1drv.ms/b/s!Apygyt54yYPwg40vo1VSor5A3Tm47w

  3. #13
    New Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2018
    Location
    Merseyside, UK
    Hammock
    DD Frontline MC
    Tarp
    DD 3x3 MC
    Insulation
    DD underblanket
    Suspension
    Paracord
    Posts
    21
    Quote Originally Posted by Just Bill View Post
    redkyte-

    The calculator you want- https://www.hammockforums.net/forum/...=1#post1317305

    There were a few, if I remember the most accurate/current was Boston's modification of the catsplat original.
    Gadget made one too since you're in the UK- https://www.hammockforums.net/forum/...ilt-Calculator

    Here is my insulation chart- https://1drv.ms/b/s!Apygyt54yYPwg40vo1VSor5A3Tm47w
    Ahah!

    Brilliant. Thank you indeed

    RedKyte

  4. #14
    cougarmeat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Bend, OR
    Hammock
    WBBB, WBRR, WL LiteOwl
    Tarp
    OES, WL BullFro
    Insulation
    HG UQ, TQ, WB UQ
    Suspension
    Python Straps
    Posts
    3,759
    Though you mentioned humidity - as Mad777 pointed out, that might not be the critical issue. I started with synthetics, still have them but will probably sell them this spring, but moved to down. It has worked well for me but there are two conditions that cause me concern.
    1) Mentioned was the long (more than four days) treks in subfreezing temperatures. But more importantly to me is the ability, or lack there of, to air/dry things out. For example, if I experience some condensation on my top quilt, I'm not so much concerned if I can put it out in the sun for half and hour. Doesn't matter if it is cold. The sun on the dark outer fabric will warm it right up.

    2) The worst situation for wetness I came across was camping on the north side of Vargas Island (on the west side of Vancouver Island). We were in a tent/sleeping bags and in the morning, outside, EVERYTHING was wet. It wasn't raining, it was a heavy mist that coated everything. Damp City. We were very careful not to touch the wall of the tent because even though we had a fly up, the tent walls were soaked.

    I still take down on my kayak trips - and hammock of course (and a Plan B if I have to go to ground). But I am very careful to check expected weather conditions. Note that the "cover everything" mist was gone the next day and sunshine dried things out. But had the condition persisted for another day or two ... we would have come back okay, but it wouldn't have been in the favorite time list.

    So if you regularly get this "cover everything" mist in the UK, AND you are going to be out for two or more days, then I'd stick with a synthetic just for peace of mind.

  5. #15
    Senior Member BillyBob58's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Tupelo, MS
    Posts
    11,108
    Images
    489
    Quote Originally Posted by cougarmeat View Post
    Though you mentioned humidity - as Mad777 pointed out, that might not be the critical issue. I started with synthetics, still have them but will probably sell them this spring, but moved to down. It has worked well for me but there are two conditions that cause me concern.
    1) Mentioned was the long (more than four days) treks in subfreezing temperatures. But more importantly to me is the ability, or lack there of, to air/dry things out. For example, if I experience some condensation on my top quilt, I'm not so much concerned if I can put it out in the sun for half and hour. Doesn't matter if it is cold. The sun on the dark outer fabric will warm it right up.

    2) The worst situation for wetness I came across was camping on the north side of Vargas Island (on the west side of Vancouver Island). We were in a tent/sleeping bags and in the morning, outside, EVERYTHING was wet. It wasn't raining, it was a heavy mist that coated everything. Damp City. We were very careful not to touch the wall of the tent because even though we had a fly up, the tent walls were soaked.

    I still take down on my kayak trips - and hammock of course (and a Plan B if I have to go to ground). But I am very careful to check expected weather conditions. Note that the "cover everything" mist was gone the next day and sunshine dried things out. But had the condition persisted for another day or two ... we would have come back okay, but it wouldn't have been in the favorite time list.

    So if you regularly get this "cover everything" mist in the UK, AND you are going to be out for two or more days, then I'd stick with a synthetic just for peace of mind.
    Well said! I would like to add: a bigger problem is if you have to pack up and go every morning. I f you don't have to get going, then maybe the shells- wet from condensation or fog- will dry out, depending on conditions, of course. But if you have to stuff that rascal down into a sack and hit the trail, that will be a different story.

  6. #16
    New Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2018
    Location
    Merseyside, UK
    Hammock
    DD Frontline MC
    Tarp
    DD 3x3 MC
    Insulation
    DD underblanket
    Suspension
    Paracord
    Posts
    21
    Quote Originally Posted by cougarmeat View Post
    Though you mentioned humidity - as Mad777 pointed out, that might not be the critical issue. I started with synthetics, still have them but will probably sell them this spring, but moved to down. It has worked well for me but there are two conditions that cause me concern.
    1) Mentioned was the long (more than four days) treks in subfreezing temperatures. But more importantly to me is the ability, or lack there of, to air/dry things out. For example, if I experience some condensation on my top quilt, I'm not so much concerned if I can put it out in the sun for half and hour. Doesn't matter if it is cold. The sun on the dark outer fabric will warm it right up.

    2) The worst situation for wetness I came across was camping on the north side of Vargas Island (on the west side of Vancouver Island). We were in a tent/sleeping bags and in the morning, outside, EVERYTHING was wet. It wasn't raining, it was a heavy mist that coated everything. Damp City. We were very careful not to touch the wall of the tent because even though we had a fly up, the tent walls were soaked.

    I still take down on my kayak trips - and hammock of course (and a Plan B if I have to go to ground). But I am very careful to check expected weather conditions. Note that the "cover everything" mist was gone the next day and sunshine dried things out. But had the condition persisted for another day or two ... we would have come back okay, but it wouldn't have been in the favorite time list.

    So if you regularly get this "cover everything" mist in the UK, AND you are going to be out for two or more days, then I'd stick with a synthetic just for peace of mind.
    Cougarmeat,

    See that's my concern. My outings range from 3 days to 30+ across all seasons, and I always pack away my kit in the mornings. Admittedly we don't have the snow of you guys but I have done a couple of trips to Canada where we were out for circa 30days.

    My synthetic kit didn't let me down significantly then though I had a few cold nights when it got down to - 10*C (-10*F).

    I might make myself a synthetic system and then experiment with down. This is such an addictive hobby!

    Redkyte

    RedKyte

  7. #17
    Senior Member cmoulder's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2017
    Location
    Ossining, NY
    Hammock
    DH Darien, SLD Tree Runner
    Tarp
    HG hex
    Insulation
    Timmermade, Revolt
    Suspension
    Kevlar, Lapp Hitch
    Posts
    4,912
    Images
    356
    Quote Originally Posted by cougarmeat View Post
    Though you mentioned humidity - as Mad777 pointed out, that might not be the critical issue. I started with synthetics, still have them but will probably sell them this spring, but moved to down. It has worked well for me but there are two conditions that cause me concern.
    1) Mentioned was the long (more than four days) treks in subfreezing temperatures. But more importantly to me is the ability, or lack there of, to air/dry things out. For example, if I experience some condensation on my top quilt, I'm not so much concerned if I can put it out in the sun for half and hour. Doesn't matter if it is cold. The sun on the dark outer fabric will warm it right up.

    2) The worst situation for wetness I came across was camping on the north side of Vargas Island (on the west side of Vancouver Island). We were in a tent/sleeping bags and in the morning, outside, EVERYTHING was wet. It wasn't raining, it was a heavy mist that coated everything. Damp City. We were very careful not to touch the wall of the tent because even though we had a fly up, the tent walls were soaked.

    I still take down on my kayak trips - and hammock of course (and a Plan B if I have to go to ground). But I am very careful to check expected weather conditions. Note that the "cover everything" mist was gone the next day and sunshine dried things out. But had the condition persisted for another day or two ... we would have come back okay, but it wouldn't have been in the favorite time list.

    So if you regularly get this "cover everything" mist in the UK, AND you are going to be out for two or more days, then I'd stick with a synthetic just for peace of mind.
    +100

    I've encountered these conditions. Down collapsed into wet lumps and ended the trip; CS Apex worked fine even though extremely damp... there was literally water misting directly onto the quilt for hours, inside a MLD Duomid where condensation was being dislodged by heavy rain drops. It was not a venting issue — the air was was just completely saturated with water vapor, so there's nothing to vent when the humidity differential is zero.

    If it's going to be wet for days on end, I'll take synthetic every time.
    Last edited by cmoulder; 01-06-2019 at 07:35.
    Five Basic Principles of Going Lighter (not me... the great Cam Honan of OZ)
    “If everybody is thinking alike, then somebody isn't thinking.” ~ Gen. George S Patton

  8. #18
    gunner76's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Murphy NC
    Hammock
    Blackbird 1.7 double
    Tarp
    HG Cuben
    Insulation
    UGQs ZEPPELIN
    Suspension
    Dutch Clips
    Posts
    10,860
    Images
    39
    I own a variety of down TQ's and UQs and a 1S, 3S and a 4S Jarbige UQs. They all work as intended in their temperature ratings. The only issue is that the 3S and the 4S quilts do not compress as much as the down so if the space in your pack is limited then down is probably the better choice. Of course you have to decide based on your budget, preferences and what type of camping ( car or back packing ) you do.
    I am still 18 but with 52 years of experience !

  9. #19
    Senior Member BillyBob58's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Tupelo, MS
    Posts
    11,108
    Images
    489
    Quote Originally Posted by redkyte510 View Post
    Cougarmeat,

    See that's my concern. My outings range from 3 days to 30+ across all seasons, and I always pack away my kit in the mornings. Admittedly we don't have the snow of you guys but I have done a couple of trips to Canada where we were out for circa 30days.

    My synthetic kit didn't let me down significantly then though I had a few cold nights when it got down to - 10*C (-10*F).

    I might make myself a synthetic system and then experiment with down. This is such an addictive hobby!

    Redkyte

    RedKyte
    30 days? With no option to leave the trail and go to a motel for drying out? And probably not much in the way of sunshine to be counted on? To me, the answer seems extremely obvious. I know it was 30+ years ago- and true, DWR shells were not as good but neither was the synthetic insulation- but I am still influenced by the rules on my NOLS (National Outdoor Leadership School) 30 day Wind River Mountaineering Course in June(still got snow even in June). Not only would they not allow cotton, they would not allow down. You couldn not join the group for the course if your insulation consisted of either. Based on the previous experience of the instuctors. At some point on that 30 day course, some one(or every one) is going to get wet either from rain, snow, fog, condensation or sweat, or some combo of all of it. And in their experience, down proved dangerous under such conditions, where you could not reasonably simply cancel the trip, make a quick escape and could not count on sunshine for drying.

    But, I would like to know how they feel about the modern treated down? I have seen mixed reviews on that. And of course, short trips, or trips with an easy bail out or escape at least for drying, or guaranteed sunshine, are all different stories.

  10. #20
    New Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2018
    Location
    Merseyside, UK
    Hammock
    DD Frontline MC
    Tarp
    DD 3x3 MC
    Insulation
    DD underblanket
    Suspension
    Paracord
    Posts
    21
    Quote Originally Posted by BillyBob58 View Post
    30 days? With no option to leave the trail and go to a motel for drying out? And probably not much in the way of sunshine to be counted on? To me, the answer seems extremely obvious. I know it was 30+ years ago- and true, DWR shells were not as good but neither was the synthetic insulation- but I am still influenced by the rules on my NOLS (National Outdoor Leadership School) 30 day Wind River Mountaineering Course in June(still got snow even in June). Not only would they not allow cotton, they would not allow down. You couldn not join the group for the course if your insulation consisted of either. Based on the previous experience of the instuctors. At some point on that 30 day course, some one(or every one) is going to get wet either from rain, snow, fog, condensation or sweat, or some combo of all of it. And in their experience, down proved dangerous under such conditions, where you could not reasonably simply cancel the trip, make a quick escape and could not count on sunshine for drying.

    But, I would like to know how they feel about the modern treated down? I have seen mixed reviews on that. And of course, short trips, or trips with an easy bail out or escape at least for drying, or guaranteed sunshine, are all different stories.
    I had heard that that was the case with some courses - it is certainly a sensible idea.

    Yeah 30 days with no access to civilisation. Not very often but I had three pretty much in a row 2 years ago.

  • + New Posts
  • Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast

    Similar Threads

    1. Humidity and underquilts?
      By Lebreton in forum Bottom Insulation
      Replies: 8
      Last Post: 02-19-2018, 23:16
    2. Down and humidity
      By Mark8408 in forum General Hammock Talk
      Replies: 4
      Last Post: 12-08-2017, 18:33
    3. Replies: 10
      Last Post: 11-09-2015, 21:41
    4. Humidity
      By Therealweaz in forum General Hammock Talk
      Replies: 6
      Last Post: 08-10-2015, 13:21
    5. Humidity
      By sandykayak in forum General Hammock Talk
      Replies: 12
      Last Post: 12-22-2010, 17:05

    Tags for this Thread

    Bookmarks

    Posting Permissions

    • You may not post new threads
    • You may not post replies
    • You may not post attachments
    • You may not edit your posts
    •