An accidental wet insulation test- HHSS- could have been worse

[BillyBob58]

Sorry for a stupid, or inexperienced, question, but what is a HHSS?

No problem, Roy! Those darn acronyms! Hennessy Hammock Super Shelter, which consists of one 2 or 3 oz space blanket right under the hammock and on top of the insulation, 1 open cell foam pad with a very light duty suspension that is shaped to more or less partly surround the user inside the hammock, at least if not using the side tie outs, and finally 1 custom fit non breathable, sil-nylon undercover with additional elastics which keep it slightly snugged up against the pad, and providing additional support for the pad to keep it against the buttocal and back area. Is also wind and water proof, unless of course the rain is coming over the top, as in this case. IOW, at least a small tarp is still required.

The open cell foam pad compresses down very small, but is a sponge, as demonstrated here. But this is my first time getting it wet in 12 years, and at least it can be somewhat squeezed out and dries quickly. I did wet the optional small kidney/torso pads on purpose once, and they dried very quickly at room temp. But yesterday I was trying to dry them between 46-55F, with zero sunshine. So it took a few hours.

[BillyBob58]

First of all, I'm glad you did this and not me because I'd have been too mad at myself to take advantage of the opportunity and probably wouldn't have thought of it anyway. The takeaway? I'm not sure but I'll hazard a guess that the system as rigged acted like a huge vapor barrier with you in it? I'm also guessing that during your testing there was little to no wind? So if you're gonna get wet, have something impermeable like the Super Shelter materials to completely block the wind; maybe that's the lesson here.

Yep, the system is pretty much a VB. two VBs actually. The outer sil-nylon shell or under cover(UC), designed to block sideways wind, rain and splash-up(and does a great job at all 3) and reduce the size of the tarp needed(i.e. the small stock HH tarp) is the obviously also a VB, being sil-nylon. And the worst kind of VB: a VB on the cold outside. Almost guaranteed that sooner or later- probably sooner- your body vapor will travel through the insulation, hit that cold shell that is below the dew point, and condense into liquid water getting the pad and any other added insulation wet.(this system works great by adding any insulation that you don't need to sleep in down in the UC)

However, a part of the system design is an additional VB(and radiant blocker or reflector), the space blanket. Which lays right under the hammock, on top of the the insulation. Or at least it is designed to be on top of the insulation. Since this VB- being right against th hammock and insulated from most of the cold, stays pretty warm, for me(and a few others here) condensation has been some where between minimal and non-existent. And as always with VBs near skin level, if there is any condensation or sweat, it is prevented from getting down into the insulation by the VB, it stays next to your skin. Over the years, I have found folks are not infrequently loathe to use the space blanket for some reason, and get the predictable results. But yes, it is for sure a VB system.

[BillyBob58]

Thanks for the report.
I too have that three part Hennessy OCF pad set. Your experience is reassuring, though the deluge senario is only likely during a thunder storm up here. However, the pad set has worked, down to the teens for me several times. (no objectionable condensation) The Super Shelter Undercover also is a great piece of equipment. Mine is just about worn out.

For anyone wondering, this is what we are talking about:

https://hennessyhammock.com/collections/insulation

Are you saying using just the basic 3 piece system, and whatever layers you normally wear of course, you have done OK into the teens? I figured there are folks around here that have done better than I have, but the teens for a system this light- with the weight including an UQP equivalent- is very impressive. For me I have always thought of it as about a 32F system. But, when I was testing to see what the limits were for me, I was pretty inexperienced, so maybe I could do better now? But since that is how I thought of it(and of course people vary greatly- warm sleeper vs cold etc ), I have just automatically added something else if going below 30F. A fleece jacket, and/or down vest, and/or the HH kidney torso pads.

[BillyBob58]

Interesting experiment BillyBob. I have always wondered which would be warmer: wearing the fleece jacket in the hammock, or putting it in the undercover to take advantage of both the front and back of the jacket as additional back insulation.

--Kurt

Good to hear from the REAL HH(EDIT: I meant HHSS) Guru! I learned that principle after my first night fiasco(shivering at 22F, user error) followed by all other nights great(by the last night of that week, I was the only one in camp who slept warm and comfy despite the wind that my tarp did not at all block, my ground dwelling buds who were laughing at me were cold and miserable and up early while I slept in to 0900).

After I got back from that WY trip, I got on the phone with Tom Hennessy, trying to get some education about how keeping a warm back in a hammock, and specifically his system worked(this was fall of 06 ). At some point in the discussion, a light bulb went on in my head and things started making sense. And I remember asking him something like: " it sounds like you are saying that- assuming my top bag/quilt were proven warm enough for the temps, I would have gotten a bigger warmth boost by putting my zipped up(with sleeves pulled inside) fleece jacket down in the UC, rather than wearing it?". His answer: "Yes, absolutely.". And I have been pretty quick to do so ever since.

[psyculman]

Are you saying using just the basic 3 piece system, and whatever layers you normally wear of course, you have done OK into the teens? I figured there are folks around here that have done better than I have, but the teens for a system this light- with the weight including an UQP equivalent- is very impressive. For me I have always thought of it as about a 32F system. But, when I was testing to see what the limits were for me, I was pretty inexperienced, so maybe I could do better now? But since that is how I thought of it(and of course people vary greatly- warm sleeper vs cold etc ), I have just automatically added something else if going below 30F. A fleece jacket, and/or down vest, and/or the HH kidney torso pads.

Nope, that is it, HH SS undercover, regular full length OCF pad, HH torso pad with HH kidney pad, covered with a mylar film. Will try it out in colder temps now that I live in northern New Hampshire permenantly. But I also always tarp off completely to the ground.

[BillyBob58]

Nope, that is it, HH SS undercover, regular full length OCF pad, HH torso pad with HH kidney pad, covered with a mylar film. Will try it out in colder temps now that I live in northern New Hampshire permenantly. But I also always tarp off completely to the ground.

OK, you included the kidney/torso pads. That explains it. Along with my VB clothing, my low with the HH pad + kidney/torso is a toasty 6F(I,m sure my VB clothing contributed to that, I just don't know how much).

Hey, I did not know any one else other than me and RamblinRev had managed to get some kidney/torso pads from HH! I thought they had quit making them a long time ago. I kept recommending them to folks who could never find them at HH site. I think I had to make a phone call to get mine over 10 years ago, couldn't find them either. Most folks I recommended them to never got any, couldn't find them. Congrats that you have some! Aren't they great?

Also, glad to hear you are yet another one who has never had condensation problems. There are at least a few of us. Personally I think it is most folks who follow directions and use the space blanket. I think there are some folks who do not believe me when I say no condensation problems, so it is good to have a few others that have a similar experience. But so many have tried to get by without that space blanket( or alternatively VB clothing) and they invriably get the predicted result. Then, they are certainly not fans of this system once that happens.

[Smckinney0031]

Ok so clue me in...pics of the kidney torso pads

[BillyBob58]

Ok so clue me in...pics of the kidney torso pads

Just a few oz of booster for the HHSS;

[Smckinney0031]

Just a few oz of booster for the HHSS;

Ohhhh thank you

[BillyBob58]

Ohhhh thank you

Your welcome. I was rushed at that last reply, I meant to include this pic also, for any one interested or curious. I don't think these have been available for years, but they might be. I don't know if these would be of any use other than boosting the open cell foam pad of the HH Supershelter. As they are also OCF and thus very compressible. But in that system, they come close to doubling the insulation in the place needed most. The larger pad goes from about butt to shoulders, about the same width as my body. They work great as a very light weight( 3 or 4 oz way to significantly boost that system at the most vulnerable point..