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  1. #1
    Senior Member BillyBob58's Avatar
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    Thumbs up An accidental wet insulation test- HHSS- could have been worse

    OK, so we all know to do every thing possible to keep our insulation dry, but sometimes we mess up. Especially at home where we might not be as careful because, you know, we are not going to die of hypothermia or anything. We can just go inside.

    But yesterday I got an impulse to hang up my OLD HHSS rather than my bridges. Never a tarp when I am on my back porch, though I need one sometimes because of wind. But, not with the HHSS, as the wind is already blocked. Normally, rain won't do much damage because of the roof, but it can splash up on an UQ. Again, the HHSS protects totally against that. In addition to splashup, sideways rain might also get my UQs with no tarp or UQP. But not normally.

    But yesterday was not normal. While I was working on something in the house, a deluge blew in, sideways! We had a tornado watch and heavy rain with heavy straight line winds blowing right into my back porch, and right over the top of the hammock, hitting the windows and back door a good 6 or 8 ft beyond the hammock. I thought "Dang, should have brought that hammock in" and also "well I'm glad my untreated down UQs aren't getting hit with that". But I was wondering how much rain was getting over the under cover and down into the hammock.

    I checked it last night in the dark, and really it didn't seem too bad at all. But when I looked again this afternoon, Holy Moly! There was a little water inside the hammock, and a small lake inside the sil-nylon undercover, with the sponge known as the HH Open Cell Foam pad, and the 4 oz worth of kidney torso pads sitting in that lake and soaking it right up. I would have been a bit panicky if I was 15-20 miles from my car in the Rocky Mountains! Plus, it was still very lightly drizzling, so forget drying out.

    So, what did I do? What else, I laid down in the hammock! I did drain the lake out of the UC, but I did not yet fool with the soaked pad, which was heavy with water( later I squeezed it out some. And if I had been in the field getting ready to sleep out, I would have taken the pad out, rolled it up and squeezed it against my chest and rain gear. And tried to find something to dry out the hammock and UC. But I just got in there in my cotton shirt and jeans and had at it.

    OK, it was only 55F. But a wet 55F. I immediately felt a hint of warmth in a few spots on my back, a few other spots were not very warm at all. But not uncomfortably cool either. I got out after a little while, and pulled the hammock out of the pad and UC, and got back in. Not good! Definitely unpleasantly cold. I thought the insulation wasn't doing much good until I removed it, big difference! How much? Hard to say, but definitely warmer with wet insulation than with no insulation. Now my cotton jeans and shirt were quite damp. I stuck my hand down into the insulation and there was more water in the UC, probably squeezed out by the weight of my body in the hammock.

    I left the under pad hanging out side of the hammock while I did some chores and went for a walk, hoping it would drip dry a bit. It did, a bit, but was still wet when I gave it another try. This time I tried to measure the difference with a meat thermometer, which made me nervous because it has a sharp tip, I was afraid of poking a hole in my hammock. But I tried. Laying in the hammock and pressing the probe against my butt and kidney area(carefully) outside the hammock, I was averaging about 71F. When I put the wet insulation back on and placed the probe between my back and the insulation, I was running in the mid 80s to a high of 91F, depending on where I placed the probe.

    I was surprised, it felt to me like more dif than that. But then I realized I had been holding the probe firmly against my back with no insulation on. But when I tried to do that(pressing firmly against my back) with the insulation on, but my arm under the hammock- holding the probe- would cause a gap. So, hard to do a real apples to apples test. I guess I should have measured again with no insulation, not pressing so firmly against my back. But hard to be precise with that, and anyway I didn't do it.

    Here is the part that really surprised me: I put a zipped up fleece jacket under the wet OCF pad. Now I went first from 1:unpleasantly cold with the damp, un-insulated hammock, 2:to just OK, maybe kind of warm in a few spots with insulation on, to 3: toasty warm! But I still could not measure the difference, the thermometer still showed about the same temps as before the jacket was aded. I could definitely FEEL the dif the jacket made, 10F or more was my guess, but I could not measure it, I was still getting mid 80s to 91 max. Compared to 71F with the probe pressed very firmly against my back. (EDIT: 71F with probe pressed firmly against my uninsulated back)

    But regardless of what the actual differences might have been, there is no doubt that even the very wet insulation, even if no where near full ability, was still a good bit better than nothing. If I had been in the field, I probably- after squeezing out- would have hung the pad under the hammock without the sil-nylon UC, and maybe added a hot water bottle in the hammock, in an attempt to dry the pad out from body heat + hot water bottle, assuming no sunshine. Plus, allowing the water to drip down from pad to ground.

    But, best bet: stay dry if you can!
    Last edited by BillyBob58; 01-02-2019 at 11:34.

  2. #2
    Senior Member BillyBob58's Avatar
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    The soaked pad has been hanging outside the sil-nylon UC in the dark, now 49F, for another hour or so since I was last laying in it, a few hours since I started fooling with it earlier today. It's almost- 80-90% - dry. So, with a couple of more hours before I would have to sleep in it, even with no sun, it might be anon-issue anyway. With sunshine, this insulation would dry very quickly, as it has also done at room temp.

  3. #3
    Senior Member oldpappy's Avatar
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    Glad you posted this.
    I've never tried using a wet open cell pad, so it is good to know it retains some value.
    I'm guessing that if it were a normal shower vs a deluge, a lesser amount of water (if any at all) would have gotten past the space blanket.

    I got my HHSS out a couple days ago and spent 2 very comfortable nights in the 30F to 34F range. It is very damp here (fog and drizzle) but the HHSS weight and efficiency constantly amazes me.
    Enjoying the simple things in life -
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  4. #4
    Senior Member Smckinney0031's Avatar
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    I have yet to try sleeping out in cooler temps in less than favorable conditions so this is an eye opener! I made it to the high 30s in rain but the rain was light! I stayed toasty warm with a 0 deg big agnes bag and a 50 degree sleeping bag doubled between the layers of my wbbb

  5. #5
    Senior Member BillyBob58's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oldpappy View Post
    Glad you posted this.
    I've never tried using a wet open cell pad, so it is good to know it retains some value.
    I'm guessing that if it were a normal shower vs a deluge, a lesser amount of water (if any at all) would have gotten past the space blanket.

    I got my HHSS out a couple days ago and spent 2 very comfortable nights in the 30F to 34F range. It is very damp here (fog and drizzle) but the HHSS weight and efficiency constantly amazes me.
    30 to 34, eh? That is pretty much right on with my experience with it. Starting about 12 years ago(as you know), although I may not have fully understood all the principles by which it worked, I remember getting down to about freezing(with just the most basic system, no augmentation) and considering myself to be neither cold nor particularly warm. Just good enough, but I didn't think I could go much lower without becoming uncomfortable. Sounds like you might be doing even a bit better than that. Good deal! You have used one for a while now also, right? I might could get lower now, obviously with augmentation i can with no problem.

    Quote Originally Posted by Smckinney0031 View Post
    I have yet to try sleeping out in cooler temps in less than favorable conditions so this is an eye opener! I made it to the high 30s in rain but the rain was light! I stayed toasty warm with a 0 deg big agnes bag and a 50 degree sleeping bag doubled between the layers of my wbbb
    That will work! Rain is no problem as long as it doesn't get into your insulation, as long as that tarp does it's job as expected, right? Sounds like you could make it down a bit lower without being cold.

    BTW, I got back from stuffing myself at a New Years feast, a couple of hours after the last post, I checked the pad and it was pretty much dry. That was just by hanging in the dark at about 46-50F, no sun or body heat to dry it. Pretty good, seems to me. I've always felt this(HHSS) was one of my best systems for wet weather, and I feel a bit more that way now.

  6. #6
    New Member Hanging Roy's Avatar
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    Sorry for a stupid, or inexperienced, question, but what is a HHSS?

  7. #7
    Senior Member sidneyhornblower's Avatar
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    First of all, I'm glad you did this and not me because I'd have been too mad at myself to take advantage of the opportunity and probably wouldn't have thought of it anyway. The takeaway? I'm not sure but I'll hazard a guess that the system as rigged acted like a huge vapor barrier with you in it? I'm also guessing that during your testing there was little to no wind? So if you're gonna get wet, have something impermeable like the Super Shelter materials to completely block the wind; maybe that's the lesson here.
    "...the height of hammock snobbery!"

  8. #8
    psyculman's Avatar
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    Thanks for the report.
    I too have that three part Hennessy OCF pad set. Your experience is reassuring, though the deluge senario is only likely during a thunder storm up here. However, the pad set has worked, down to the teens for me several times. (no objectionable condensation) The Super Shelter Undercover also is a great piece of equipment. Mine is just about worn out.

    For anyone wondering, this is what we are talking about:

    https://hennessyhammock.com/collections/insulation
    Since I retired, some times I stay awake all day, some times all night.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hanging Roy View Post
    Sorry for a stupid, or inexperienced, question, but what is a HHSS?
    HH has two pad systems, and in this video I compare and contrast the two:



    --Kurt
    My hiking/backpacking Youtube channel: Youtube

    My BackpackGearTest reviews: Reviews

    If you have an HH, then you should read my SuperShelter review: HH Super Shelter

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by BillyBob58 View Post
    Here is the part that really surprised me: I put a zipped up fleece jacket under the wet OCF pad. Now I went first from 1:unpleasantly cold with the damp, un-insulated hammock, 2:to just OK, maybe kind of warm in a few spots with insulation on, to 3: toasty warm! But I still could not measure the difference, the thermometer still showed about the same temps as before the jacket was aded. I could definitely FEEL the dif the jacket made, 10F or more was my guess, but I could not measure it, I was still getting mid 80s to 91 max. Compared to 71F with the probe pressed very firmly against my back.
    Interesting experiment BillyBob. I have always wondered which would be warmer: wearing the fleece jacket in the hammock, or putting it in the undercover to take advantage of both the front and back of the jacket as additional back insulation.

    --Kurt
    My hiking/backpacking Youtube channel: Youtube

    My BackpackGearTest reviews: Reviews

    If you have an HH, then you should read my SuperShelter review: HH Super Shelter

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