How do I put an Amsteel eye (not a hitch) on a ring - with just one end available?

[Just Bill]

A thought if lockstitching is not an option...

Do your dogbone onto one ring with plenty of spare line, feed the line through the gathered end, then loop it through your second ring (or the first again?).
Then pull the line through itself to form your loop, skip a few strands and pull back through itself.

You now basically have an eye on each ring with the second eye being an S pass. Rather than bury it and stitch- tie a stopper knot of some sort.
With the S pass you won't be load bearing on one 'hole' nor fully bearing on one simple stopper knot (as opposed to being able to do a full diamond knot).

I can't see why that wouldn't be enough to do the job.

The only other thing I can think of would be to do a continuous loop with two rings on it.
Yes it would be a pain to splice while fed through the channel but I don't see why you couldn't do it.
Loop onto one ring- pull the two tail ends through the hammock.
Then loop on the second ring and complete the splice. You could get the locked brummel done easily enough.
For the buries you'd need to pull from the first ring side with a loop turner or long splice tool but it seems easy enough without doing anything too funky.

The 1.2 Gathered end should compress down to about 4-6 inches so you could get this done with about an 8" continous loop and still hit 7" buries.

Once you do the initial pull through the channel a rubber band, piece of string or clamp could be used to keep the hammock gathered so you had room to splice.

As I type this all up it seems the ideal way to do this. I believe you could even do it with one ring if you pulled the bury 2-4" at a time... the curve of the loop would prevent a clean pull if you used only one ring but it could be buried if done in several steps.

[rais'n hammock]

One option if you don't want to use a lark's head on the ring is to use a continuous loop on spliced with the ring on the loop then lark head the loop to the locked brummel loop on the end of a dog bone.
Many ways to skin a cat, but it helps to know what your cat looks like. Do you have any pictures or a sketch of what you are doing with the finished product? There may be a different way to approach the problem. I know your first comment of using a Dutch hook led to some confusion and now the ring may offer some more help but also does not provide the full explanation of function.

[cougarmeat]

This isn't specific to a particular hammock suspension. I was just wondering if it were possible should a situation arise. Bill - I understand the "double ring" and how it is used to pinch a line or webbing. But I use one ring at each hammock end - for two purposes. 1 is a water break and 2 is I can easily swap out different suspicion on the ring - whoopies, webbing, daisy chain (w/carabiner), etc.

I suppose my idea would be more used for some kind of hardware-ridge line solution to tarp suspension.

A year or so again I finally decided I wasn't so afraid of DIY - within my equipment range - and bought some amsteel. I became a loop/dogbone/whoopie sling/soft shackle making fool. I don't remember the machinations of the diamond knot for the soft shackle stopper, but I know I've made it (several times) and could watch it again on YouTube. There is also the simpler overhand knot with two passes around - a stopper shown on other youtube examples.

My Education stopped short of making an eye with only one end of the line available - primarily do to the complication of the multiple "inside out" maneuvers shown. Then I came across the one one mention in an earlier post in this tread. Very simple.

So once I knew how to make an eye, brummel locked, with only one end available, my next progression was, "I wonder if I could put something on that eye that only has one end available - and that led me to this post/tread.

I appreciate all the alternate suggestions. I do understand they are options towards a practical goal.

But I was just wondering, given the "magic" of forming a locked brummel eye using only one end of the line, if there was some additional hocus-pocus that would allow that "eye from one end of the line" to be attached to something.

Looks like the object in the eye on one end and the object larks headed to the line at the other end or the S weave with enough bury I can trust is as close as I can get.

[Levi Tate]

.....

Looks like the object in the eye on one end and the object larks headed to the line at the other end or the S weave with enough bury I can trust is as close as I can get.

Incase you didn't realise, it's the (proper length) bury that takes the load, not the lock stitch.

The lock stitch is there to hold the bury in place while there is no load on the line.

Other than that, carry on.

[Just Bill]

This isn't specific to a particular hammock suspension. I was just wondering if it were possible should a situation arise. Bill - I understand the "double ring" and how it is used to pinch a line or webbing. But I use one ring at each hammock end - for two purposes. 1 is a water break and 2 is I can easily swap out different suspicion on the ring - whoopies, webbing, daisy chain (w/carabiner), etc.

I suppose my idea would be more used for some kind of hardware-ridge line solution to tarp suspension.

A year or so again I finally decided I wasn't so afraid of DIY - within my equipment range - and bought some amsteel. I became a loop/dogbone/whoopie sling/soft shackle making fool. I don't remember the machinations of the diamond knot for the soft shackle stopper, but I know I've made it (several times) and could watch it again on YouTube. There is also the simpler overhand knot with two passes around - a stopper shown on other youtube examples.

My Education stopped short of making an eye with only one end of the line available - primarily do to the complication of the multiple "inside out" maneuvers shown. Then I came across the one one mention in an earlier post in this tread. Very simple.

So once I knew how to make an eye, brummel locked, with only one end available, my next progression was, "I wonder if I could put something on that eye that only has one end available - and that led me to this post/tread.

I appreciate all the alternate suggestions. I do understand they are options towards a practical goal.

But I was just wondering, given the "magic" of forming a locked brummel eye using only one end of the line, if there was some additional hocus-pocus that would allow that "eye from one end of the line" to be attached to something.

Looks like the object in the eye on one end and the object larks headed to the line at the other end or the S weave with enough bury I can trust is as close as I can get.

Would you be happy with the picture I shared earlier if the carabiner was a single ring?
Pretty sure I know how to do that actually. https://1drv.ms/b/s!Apygyt54yYPwg6AdUITBt9E0llGJYQ

When I made this up to try I used some Kevlar Huggers I had already sewn up. So I had to add the grappler style loop with the whoopie hook to the already sewn loop.
https://1drv.ms/b/s!Apygyt54yYPwg6AcdXr2PEJu28OG_Q

I'm pretty sure the method I used would work for this application too.

If so... I can sketch something up or try it out.

[TominMN]

I suppose if I thunk hard enough I could figure out if this was even possible or not; topology of a single line and all.

Is it possible to put one end of a line through the hole in the Dutch Hook and so that it is on an "eye" with a locked brummel?

...

What you are hoping to do just isn't possible any more than trying to do a true locked Brummel on a CL! Just go with the locking stitch on the second eye loop.

[Redoleary]

I have done it using the McDonald brummel method to put beads on an eye but you have to be able to fit the bead through the line, something you probably can’t do with a ring.

[cougarmeat]

Bill, I'll study your graphics a little more later. This was more a "theory" question than a need. I go back and forth on where I want the hardware to live - on the hammock, on the suspension. Like with my tarps ... sometimes I keep the guy lines attached to the tarp. Then they get a bit too tangled when I'm putting the tarp up, so they go in a separate bag - for a while. Just looking at options. The advantage of NOT having something "eye'd" to the line is I can use it other places should the need come up. So Garth Hitch/Larks Head - ing any hardware to the loops at each end is the most flexible while minimizing the concern that said "device" will escape from the line while unattended.

Redoleary, Thank you for your suggestion. I understand if any object, wooden bead, etc. will through the Amsteel split when making the Brummel, it's just like making a regular brummel. Easy-peasy.

The bury holds the weight/strain - got it. I was just imagining a situation and wondering if I could get there or if, like those who'd ask me how to make a 3-D graph when they were using a 2-D program, I wasn't appreciating the spacial limits imposed on a string. The thing with stitching - as admittedly trivial that it is - is it is one more thing. one more point of failure, one more moving part (though it isn't really moving).

Larks heading both loops at the ends of my imaginary line gives me maximum flexibly with the hardware I'm attaching and pretty much assures the hardware won't escape. So I'll go with that.

[gmcttr]

...You can do a semi-brummel (not truly locked) by pulling through from one side, then pulling back through a few threads later. Basically an 'S' shaped bury.
You still have to lock stitch it but there isn't as much load on the stitching at least. I've found with a #18 needle I can stitch with my sewing machine easily enough to make it less of a pain...

No need to take the load off of the lock stitching since there shouldn't be any to start with. As stated in post #14 "The lock stitch is there to hold the bury in place while there is no load on the line. "

Using a sewing machine to make a lock stitch is a completely incorrect way to do it. A sewing machine makes a tight stitch which doesn't allow the constrictor to move, stretch and tighten properly and therefore does place stress on the stitching where it doesn't belong. Stay with a loose hand stitching as follows.

Scroll down for the proper lock stitching method...https://samsonrope.com/docs/default-...rsn=f00ad20c_2

[Just Bill]

No need to take the load off of the lock stitching since there shouldn't be any to start with. As stated in post #14 "The lock stitch is there to hold the bury in place while there is no load on the line. "

Using a sewing machine to make a lock stitch is a completely incorrect way to do it. A sewing machine makes a tight stitch which doesn't allow the constrictor to move, stretch and tighten properly and therefore does place stress on the stitching where it doesn't belong. Stay with a loose hand stitching as follows.

Scroll down for the proper lock stitching method...https://samsonrope.com/docs/default-...rsn=f00ad20c_2

Fair enough... I don't do it enough to make a difference... but the right way is the right way.