Hammock vs Tent Price / Weight Comparison

[leiavoia]

Completely agree with this - I was fairly overweight the last few backpacking seasons and to compensate I went full ultralight. It helped, but now that I'm down 50lbs from where I was in the last few years an extra lb or 2 has no impact on me. Getting in shape will always outweigh those few oz. (Although, it still doesn't stop me from wanting to buy the latest UL stuff, lol)

Losing weight made a difference for me as well.

However, i'm going to disagree with the blanket statement "don't get hung up on ounces". Here's why:

You would never say to someone "don't get hung up pennies" when planning a budget or "don't get hung up on calories" when figuring out your diet. For people new to backpacking, they (as much as my former myself) are not fully aware of what they are carrying. It was not until i weighed literally every item in my pack and put it into a spreadsheet that i could figure out where all the weight was coming from. I made some obvious, low-cost gear swaps and easily dropped 5 pounds. Those 5 pounds mean a lot when your back is tired and your knees are garbage. That's the difference between "fun" and "work".

[OneClick]

Me not getting hung up on ounces: consistent 32lb total pack

Me getting hung up on ounces: 22-25lb total pack

Regardless of physical condition, I'm going with that 22lb pack every time. In fact, I'm still chipping away at ounces and grams.

[Apollo]

Losing weight made a difference for me as well.

However, i'm going to disagree with the blanket statement "don't get hung up on ounces". Here's why:

You would never say to someone "don't get hung up pennies" when planning a budget or "don't get hung up on calories" when figuring out your diet. For people new to backpacking, they (as much as my former myself) are not fully aware of what they are carrying. It was not until i weighed literally every item in my pack and put it into a spreadsheet that i could figure out where all the weight was coming from. I made some obvious, low-cost gear swaps and easily dropped 5 pounds. Those 5 pounds mean a lot when your back is tired and your knees are garbage. That's the difference between "fun" and "work".

Totally makes sense - I suppose it's easy to forget where I came from (Taking an airplane roller backpack on my first backpacking trip, a loaf a bread and some peanut butter) all those years ago. I suppose a better statement would be to find the point where cost for oz no longer makes sense. When you are starting at a 40lb base weight pack, lbs are fairly cheap and easy to drop out of that pack weight. Once you get to ~sub 15lb base weight - oz become expensive to lose. My point is just that if you are already at a fairly low base weight - getting in shape will help much, much more than a few additional oz's out of your bag.

[chapinb]

Counting ounces is personal preferance. A few extra ounces wont hurt or even be noticeable. I do agree with weighing everything you plan or buying or already have. Just being concious of it will make you shed weight.
As a beginner, it's not hard to drop pounds (plural) by being only slightly more picky on what you buy and being less picky on where it comes from, like used. All while not increasing budget at all.


Back to the topic. This is a great baseline for anyone starting new. One size never fits all, but it's a good list to compare for any new camper lost in the details. Its interesting to note that weight and price are all pretty similar to each price point...
If your even remotely interested in diy, a hammock would be cheaper since uq and hammock could be made for about 100$ and 40 ounces but still fit quality wise into the mid range levels. Cant really apply easy diy to a tent or sleeping pad....

[boca1]

Me not getting hung up on ounces: consistent 32lb total pack

Me getting hung up on ounces: 22-25lb total pack

Regardless of physical condition, I'm going with that 22lb pack every time. In fact, I'm still chipping away at ounces and grams.

when we are all throwing out pack weight, I'm assuming we are all talking dry weight, no food, water or fuel?

[cmoulder]

Well in the past I've carried 40-45 lb packs (heck, who even weighed 'em back then?) for 2-3 night trips for which I now routinely carry a 15-17 lb pack. I used to suffer like an abused farm animal, absolutely requiring a 10 minute break each hour, and happy — and relieved — to cover 7-8 miles and calling it a day. That's when I was in my thirties and forties. Nowadays, even though I'm in my sixties I can do 12-15 miles of fairly difficult terrain and still feel great at day's end, thanks to carrying much less weight. I don't dread the prospect of hiking a steep mountain trail. If I had to carry 40-45 lbs I probably wouldn't be hiking at all... just plain not fun.

However, I must take exception to the premise that UL is all about crushing big miles and not taking time to stop and smell the roses. For me it is the exact polar opposite — I enjoy the roses (or, more likely, mountain laurel ) a lot more now than when I was suffering like Sisyphus with a huge pack.

[dakotaross]

Its a great baseline for somebody who has no idea what they want, besides the lightest thing possible. The middle of the road and cheap options are fraught with choices and compromises, too many to really compare. The expensive option comparison is pretty good. If I start to compare my cheap 9oz hammock setup to your expensive 16oz setup, then you have to start including the tarp ground setups because I'm netless. Personally, though, I see netless above ground as a whole lot more "protected" vs laying a pad on the ground under a tarp.

But the other two options do at least show what we all knew, which is that you don't have to have a cuben tarp to have a setup that is at least as light as a tent setup. With greater modularity comes more options to fit what we really want and leave out what we really don't need. That makes for a better "value per weight". Besides comfort is the way in which hammocks can be a better LNT option, too. Total weight in the pack has always been a critical, and mostly priority factor, but comfort and impact are increasingly of value to me.

[cougarmeat]

Apollo - Congratulations on that weight loss. I'm sure it took a lot of discipline. Inspiring just to know it's possible.
Ultra-liters, loose the weight and you can get down to a 1.1 oz/yd single layer hammock - there's a worthy challenge.

To put a clarifying slant on it, I was not talking about the difference between a 40 lb pack and a 17lb pack. I'm talking about a 22lb vs a 24.7lb pack. For example, that less-than-a-pound telescoping pole I mentioned allows me to quickly put my tarp up in porch mode without spending time looking around for a suitable stick. The convenience is worth the weight.

I have an old back-in-the-day-state-o-art, Greogory Pack. It weighs a "ton" compared to my current today's-technology pack. The weight saving on the pack is pounds compared to a few ounces here and there on what goes in it. I'm guessing a lot of weight saved by those going from 40 lbs to 20 lbs is the pack itself. Also, less weight isn't "free"; and I'm not talking about money. Lets say you use an alcohol stove - extremely light weight So you want to cooks something and you need to lower the flame to a soft simmer. But you can't because the alcohol stove is full on or full off. Great if you just want to boil water. But you are giving up something by not using gas canister or white gas that weighs more.

So that's another point. You can't always say, "Okay, I'll spend a more money once and enjoy my 3 oz. saving every time I go out - as if the ultralite item is exactly the equivalent of the heavier item it's replacing.

A 2 lb 950 fill down bag vs a 3 lb 600-800 fill bag. Sure, if they have the same temperature rating. But often it's a lot of money difference for a resulting 25 lb pack vs a 26 lb pack. And I'm not saying "Don't do it." I'm saying you don't have to do it to have a great experience in the outdoors.

Interesting side note: I was going to make the point that Mallory climbed Everest without ultrallite gear. In researching what he did wear, I came across this: "The researchers have also found that Mallory's apparel weighed much less than modern equivalents." http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/4470522.stm So dang, I can't use that old-time gear to make a point.

> You would never say to someone "don't get hung up pennies" when planning a budget or "don't get hung up on calories"
Here's a different perspective ... Once upon a time, when I was working my way though school, I had to be very careful with money. Though it is often presented as humor, at one time I was considering cat food because it was cheaper than tuna and had protein; I was that poor. After I graduated and had a "real" job; I still, out of habit or trauma, counted pennies. It wasn't that I didn't buy things; it was that I calculated everything. I realized I might have a problem when I spent seven minutes trying to decide if I should buy a 23 cent pencil or a 27 cent pencil - I was "hung up on pennies". Then I read one person's solution. He said he'd calculate .001% of his income (maybe it was .0001) and if the item cost less than that, he'd just buy it. No deliberation with himself.

Embracing that philosophy was so freeing. And it doesn't mean a person goes "wild". You still have discrimination. It's just that at a certain point, you DON'T get hung up on pennies. Criteria is still applied to the purchase; it's just that cost isn't one of them. Back to hammock and camping ... criteria is still applied to "what gear to bring". It's just that at a certain point, for me, item weight isn't one of them.

[swoody126]

i always like to leave my options OPEN

since my most compact mode of transportation now is a Jeep Cherokee and when chosen it is an F-350 i don't see why i should have to make a choice prior to departing

hammocks tents tepee...

aw shucks let's just take all of 'em

any way we choose we are still CAMPING


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sw

[cougarmeat]

Swoody126, When xc skiing or hiking, I always tell people, it doesn't hurt to throw it in the car and decide at the trail head. But some people just want to get going and look with distain upon those repacking a bit for current, at-site (or closer to anyway) conditions. Amazing but true, the "Let's get going" people are often the ones having to borrow something from someone else. After a certain age, I quit (mostly) carrying gear for younger adults. I thought they'd learn. But they don't. My learning was through a bit of pain/embarrassment - nothing like being cold to trigger remembering to at least put that warmer jacket in the car, wind shell in the pack, extra hat, etc.. I wish there was another way to learn, but my "Your hands are cold? Here are some spare gloves." was only enabling.