Peapods and cocoons - passé?

[cspan37421]

Hi,

Last night while ordering rain pants from Dutch, I saw the sale on netless hammocks, and of course succumbed to ordering an 11 footer. Anyway, it's getting cold and space in the pack is getting harder to come by, with insulation needs taking up room (and I'm a very cold sleeper, so what is adequate for some isn't often adequate for me).

I've wondered about whether the DIY peapod/cocoon with an old sleeping bag is still considered a viable idea for insulation. I have one old 20F down bag, in a long, as well as a Snugpak synthetic bag (Chrysalis 4, EN comfort 14F) in a regular length. Frankly neither feels toasty to me at 40F (on the ground, with an R3.5 pad), but I wonder if they'd work any better as a cocoon or peapod if I was willing to cut them open at each end and have it serve as both a TQ and UQ.

Or is such a thing (if hangers even use them anymore) just supplemental insulation to TQ and UQ?

I don't want to camp below 20F; in fact, I really only wonder if it's a viable setup (skipping TQ, UQ, pad, and just using the bag as a cocoon), and if so, what might be the temp range if I had nothing else in there with me (or, at most, a Costco down throw TQ).

Thanks much!

[BillyBob58]

Hi,

Last night while ordering rain pants from Dutch, I saw the sale on netless hammocks, and of course succumbed to ordering an 11 footer. Anyway, it's getting cold and space in the pack is getting harder to come by, with insulation needs taking up room (and I'm a very cold sleeper, so what is adequate for some isn't often adequate for me).

I've wondered about whether the DIY peapod/cocoon with an old sleeping bag is still considered a viable idea for insulation. I have one old 20F down bag, in a long, as well as a Snugpak synthetic bag (Chrysalis 4, EN comfort 14F) in a regular length. Frankly neither feels toasty to me at 40F (on the ground, with an R3.5 pad), but I wonder if they'd work any better as a cocoon or peapod if I was willing to cut them open at each end and have it serve as both a TQ and UQ.

Or is such a thing (if hangers even use them anymore) just supplemental insulation to TQ and UQ?

I don't want to camp below 20F; in fact, I really only wonder if it's a viable setup (skipping TQ, UQ, pad, and just using the bag as a cocoon), and if so, what might be the temp range if I had nothing else in there with me (or, at most, a Costco down throw TQ).

Thanks much!

Major Speer Pea Pod fan boy here. http://www.tttrailgear.com/speer-peapod/ You should also see Shug's video's on DIY pods using a Western Mountaineering 20F bag( can't recall the model, and whether or not it was a mummy) as the outer pod, with varying amounts of added insulation on the inside, to sleep warmer than he ever has, at temps as low as minus 40F.

First, it sounds like you have not found your bags all that warm on the ground, so I would not expect them to be any warmer around a hammock.

Do your bags have full length 2 way zippers? This will allow you to run the hammock suspension through the foot end. Or, if you are into DIY, you can cut a hole in the foot end, add a closure channel, and run the hammock end through that. The longer and wider the bag, the better it will work. The narrower and less deep your hammock, the better it will work. You may need to add some Gros Grain loops and shock cord or just nylon cords(that is what my Speer Pea Pod used) to keep the bag just barely snugged up against the hammock.

One problem that arises when using the pod without additional insulation is that the side edges of the hammock- especially the wider hammocks- tend to lift the top layer of the bag up off of your body, creating a gap. Again, a wider bag will be better able to drape down and fill that gap, and a narrower hammock will have less lift. I have filled these gaps with both summer weight TQs or just clothing. The upside is: once this gap is filled, the pod is now actually a lot warmer than the original bag was.

The big upside with a pod that is hard to match with any other system is that it is pretty draft proof. Since it is closed ariund the hammock even on the ends, it is MUCH less prone to drafts and gaps, just as being zipped up in a mummy bag would be. This is it's number one advantage.

What you are thinking of doing is certainly very doable. It has been done with great success. Some claim it limits the ability to go diagonal, but if the bag is wide enough to easily enclose the hammock sides, there really should not be much problem. Never any problem for me with that Speer pod, and I don't think Shug had significant problems with diagonal when using his bags in pod mode.

Good luck, and have fun experimenting!

[BillyBob58]

One more thing: were you planning on trying to use both of these bags at the same time, in some fashion?

If so, wrapping the long(hopefully also wide) bag around the hammock as a pod, and layering the regular length bag inside as a TQ, will probably roast you at 40F or even 20F. The only thing you will have to worry about, if these bags are not warm toasty for you at 40F, is the back warmth below 40F. Adding a puffy jacket or vest under the hammock should take care of that, with whatever suspension you may have rigged up adjusted so that it is snug enough, but not too snug and thus crushing the loft of both bag and added jacket. A bit of allof that and you should be good to well below 20F top and bottom.

Of course, if the regular bag is big enough, you could also use it as a pod under the longer bag/pod, and that would give you huge loft top and bottom with no flattening of loft on either bag. But, you might still have a top gap problem caused by the hammock edges lifting the bag's top layers.

[cspan37421]

Thanks BillyBob58! I did just see at least one Shug video of him with the WM 20F bag as a peapod, but IIRC he had a lot of other insulation in there with him. I also saw another video like it, where the sleeping bag was basically an outer layer of insulation in addition to the normal TQ/UQ, So of course it would be toasty for really low winter temps. That level of cold is beyond me. What I was curious about was, if you only had the bag as a cocoon, no TQ or UQ (at most, a CDT or similar), would you be as warm or warmer in a given bag as you would be in the same bag ground dwelling? You made a good point about the sides of the hammock maybe lifting up the top of the cocoon and creating a bit of a cave in there, which would be hard to warm up. I know how a roomy sleeping bag isn't as warm as a snug fitting one, and this would be a big example of that.


To answer your questions:

Neither of my bags have the zips go all the way to the foot end, let alone around it. Both of them have zips that end around the calf area, I'd say. At least one has a two-way zip. Maybe both do. My shorter one is a Snugpak Chrysalis 4 synthetic, about 86" long and EN rated 5F (lower limit), 14F comfort. I have serious doubts I could even get to 25F in that bag; I like to be toasty just short of sweating, and it was slightly cool at 40F recently. That said I wasn't wearing fleece, just thin Duofolds, so maybe there's room for improvement in that. The Snugpak can expand via a second zipper channel and go from about 59" around the chest to probably 64".

My other bag is a 20F long 600 fill power down bag, LL Bean. The bag is at least 90" long and probably 65"-66" around the chest. It was not my intent to use both bags together - I would not have room for them in my pack, along with other things I'd bring. My main curiosity was whether this cocoon idea could be effective warmth-wise, because it seems that it would save space over an UQ + TQ, or over a pad + TQ/bag. If it could only save space by being less warm (due to the cave effect, or whatever - breezes), I don't think I'd be interested in it - I'd just throw my pad and bag in the hammock instead.

The hammocks I have now are the GT Ultralight, which is 114" x 54"; a Dutch 11' (which is 58" wide, IIRC) is on the way. Thanks for pointing out that a long bag and short hammock work best for this sort of thing. But it sounds like this setup is unlikely to be any warmer than ground dwelling, if I solely rely on one bag to serve as UQ +TQ, or TQ+Pad. Just checking on potential efficiencies; this one struck me as having good potential, but you're right, that dead air space inside will be hard to warm without other stuff in there.

Thanks again!

[BillyBob58]

Thanks BillyBob58! I did just see at least one Shug video of him with the WM 20F bag as a peapod, but IIRC he had a lot of other insulation in there with him. I also saw another video like it, where the sleeping bag was basically an outer layer of insulation in addition to the normal TQ/UQ, So of course it would be toasty for really low winter temps. That level of cold is beyond me. What I was curious about was, if you only had the bag as a cocoon, no TQ or UQ (at most, a CDT or similar), would you be as warm or warmer in a given bag as you would be in the same bag ground dwelling? You made a good point about the sides of the hammock maybe lifting up the top of the cocoon and creating a bit of a cave in there, which would be hard to warm up. I know how a roomy sleeping bag isn't as warm as a snug fitting one, and this would be a big example of that.


To answer your questions:

Neither of my bags have the zips go all the way to the foot end, let alone around it. Both of them have zips that end around the calf area, I'd say. At least one has a two-way zip. Maybe both do. My shorter one is a Snugpak Chrysalis 4 synthetic, about 86" long and EN rated 5F (lower limit), 14F comfort. I have serious doubts I could even get to 25F in that bag; I like to be toasty just short of sweating, and it was slightly cool at 40F recently. That said I wasn't wearing fleece, just thin Duofolds, so maybe there's room for improvement in that. The Snugpak can expand via a second zipper channel and go from about 59" around the chest to probably 64".

My other bag is a 20F long 600 fill power down bag, LL Bean. The bag is at least 90" long and probably 65"-66" around the chest. It was not my intent to use both bags together - I would not have room for them in my pack, along with other things I'd bring. My main curiosity was whether this cocoon idea could be effective warmth-wise, because it seems that it would save space over an UQ + TQ, or over a pad + TQ/bag. If it could only save space by being less warm (due to the cave effect, or whatever - breezes), I don't think I'd be interested in it - I'd just throw my pad and bag in the hammock instead.

The hammocks I have now are the GT Ultralight, which is 114" x 54"; a Dutch 11' (which is 58" wide, IIRC) is on the way. Thanks for pointing out that a long bag and short hammock work best for this sort of thing. But it sounds like this setup is unlikely to be any warmer than ground dwelling, if I solely rely on one bag to serve as UQ +TQ, or TQ+Pad. Just checking on potential efficiencies; this one struck me as having good potential, but you're right, that dead air space inside will be hard to warm without other stuff in there.

Thanks again!

You are welcome! It is more a wide bag and/or a narrow hammock that is important, though long counts also. But the main thing is having a wide enough bag to wrap around the width of the hammock with enough left over to drape down into contact with your body. Probably that won't happen, you will have more or less gap above yu depending on both the width of your hammock vs the width of your bag, or pod. Another thing: the tighter your hammock is hung, the more tension on the side edges, the more it lifts up the pod, and the greater the gap.

Your bag will probably NOT be as warm on top as it is on the ground, depending on how much gap you have. If you manage to partly or totally fill that TOP gap with some sort of light quilt or even puffy clothing or a down vest( I like to put my arms through the sleeves of a puffy jacket as though I am putting it on backwards, with it's front opening/zipper open and facing towards the bottom of the hammock, that really puffs it up), it may be even warmer ON TOP than on the ground. That usually solves most problems.

As for the bottom, I would say it will be as warm on the hammock as it is on the ground. But of course, your bag does not really provide much back warmth on the ground, as it is flattened by your weight. Your pad is what provides your back insulation on the ground. But, if your bag has equal insulation front and back, it should be as warm as your bag is capable of being. IOW, if it has 20*F worth of loft on top(about 2.5" thick for down, less needed for synthetic) and 20* worth of loft on the bottom, then it should take you to about 20*F in a hammock, same as on top. Because you should not have any gap on bottom after adjusting the tension with whatever suspension you might need and have added. The gap is only a potential problem on top.

Keep in mind: if you have a way to fill the gap on top, it will be as warm or warmer than on the ground(because now you actually have more loft than on the ground, AND warmer than a TQ on top and bottom, because you can seal out all drafts. That is the big advantage compared to quilts in my experience anyway: NO DRAFTS.

If your zippers do not go all the way around the foot of the bag, I think you are going to have to cut some holes in the end to make it usable. Watch out for down flying out! And you will want to rig up some sort of cinch cord so you can close it tight around the hammock on the foot end.

Shug has a 20F bag, with a 0F partial length(shoulders to butt) WB Yeti UQ below, and a TQ on top. But keep in mind this kept him plenty warm at minus 40F, a full 60* warmer than that WM bag is rated for, and 40* warmer than his UQ/TQ's ratings. And he probably could have gone colder! So that shows you the potential. He probably could use just the bag for temps above 20F, but would have to fill the top gap at least with clothes.

[Wesleypipesyo]

I use this type of setup. My first pea pod was a $15 Wal-Mart brand sleeping bag that I sewed the open end up nice and tight. That with a 30° mummy bag was way too hot on a night that dipped into the mid 20°s. I used that bad until the zipper pulls broke off. I have finally purchased a real pea pod. It alone was good into the high 30°s. My goal is to test it into the teens in January.

[gunner76]

Do peapods work ? Have not tried one so I can not say from personal experiences but many folks seem to like them. I have only seen a Spears Peapod being used one time. Seems to me some of the issues to consider is the cost, extra weight and volume along with the extra volume of air space that will need to be heated. If you are camping in really cold weather like below 0 degrees F, then sounds like a good idea to use everything you can to stay warm. Of course if your camping int extreme low temps then it is probably in the snow and you are probably pulling a pulk to handle the extra gear to stay warm.

[Crash]

When I used a synthetic sleepg bag as a peapod the bottom would droop down causing cbs: cold butt syndrome. I had to cinch the foot & head ends to keep them from sliding towards the middle. An under quilt protector also helped with the sag. I also used a costco quilt to take up the air space above me. It takes some practice and experimenting.

I do like the ‘snug as a bug in my cocoon’.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[BillyBob58]

I use this type of setup. My first pea pod was a $15 Wal-Mart brand sleeping bag that I sewed the open end up nice and tight. That with a 30° mummy bag was way too hot on a night that dipped into the mid 20°s. I used that bad until the zipper pulls broke off. I have finally purchased a real pea pod. It alone was good into the high 30°s. My goal is to test it into the teens in January.

A real Pea Pod? As in a Speer Pea Pod, or something else? Where did you get that?

Do peapods work ? Have not tried one so I can not say from personal experiences but many folks seem to like them. I have only seen a Spears Peapod being used one time. Seems to me some of the issues to consider is the cost, extra weight and volume along with the extra volume of air space that will need to be heated. If you are camping in really cold weather like below 0 degrees F, then sounds like a good idea to use everything you can to stay warm. Of course if your camping int extreme low temps then it is probably in the snow and you are probably pulling a pulk to handle the extra gear to stay warm.

They work better than anything I have ever used, they are the most consistent, and they are the only thing that is almost guaranteed draft proof. They don't have to weigh any more or have any more volume than 2 full length quilts, in fact usually less. Last spec I saw on a 20F model ( at TTTG ) was 36 oz. I don't think you could find 2 full length 20F quilts that would weigh that little, plus you would not have head coverage = to a hood. But, you will need to do some top gap filling to get to that 20F rating on top, which if even the lightest possible TQ is used to fill that gap- rather than just clothing- will now be much warmer than 20F.

A Polar Pod- though still depending on the width of the hammock- might not need anything - or at least much less- to fill the top gap. Because it is significantly wider/longer, so it is better able to rah over the sides of your hammock and drape back down on the hanger.

[Wesleypipesyo]

A real Pea Pod? As in a Speer Pea Pod, or something else? Where did you get that?

I have two pea pods. One is just an el cheapo sleeping bag that I sewed the ends closed and put pass through holes in. I did it while watching star wars and having some Miller high life. It worked well. But due to the crappy sew job it was constantly ripping where the hammock passed through it. So I replaced it with a Snugpak cocoon. I have used it three times. The coldest I have used it was in the high 20s. That with my 30° mummy bag was was enough that that I had to vent the heat out of it a couple times through the night.

The big down side is that the thing lays on your face if you sleep on your back. I sleep on my side so it isn't really that bad. This coming weekend I am going to try to put a length of cord through the pea pod to see if that helps keep it up off of my body some.