Looking for.....UQ Cover, Sock or some other tool!?

[kevperro]

Ok... I've learned about the evils of condensation long ago. Wrapping myself up in a sock sounds like a receipt for wetness.

I'm not going to do deep winter camping but I do snowshoe and like to hang out in mild winter (>10 deg. F typically) conditions. I think a underquilt protector of some sort would add enough wind protection to keep me happy. I bought a netted hammock so I know even that will add some wind protection and I can always throw something over the ridge to mitigate some of the wind.

I'm kind of envisioning an underquilt cover with a 3/4 top cover as the perfect solution. Breathable enough to allow water vapor out but enough of a wind break to mitigate drafts.

I have a HG Incubator & Burrow 20 deg.

Any recommendations?

[SilvrSurfr]

I'm kind of envisioning an underquilt cover with a 3/4 top cover as the perfect solution.

I'm kind of envisioning that setup as a sweaty mess of condensation. I have never used a UQP (and never will: I'd rather have a 4-season tarp with doors), but I don't think it really matters if you have a 3/4 top cover or one that covers everything. The top cover causes me massive condensation, and I'll only use it when temps get below 20* F. Since you already have a bugnet, you'll be getting plenty of condensation without a 3/4 top cover.

I have a Dutch Chameleon with a topcover, and Dutch adds this little bug mesh vent, as if it's going to vent anything (it doesn't). Bugnet or topcover always causes massive condensation for me. Your mileage may vary.

[cmc4free]

Agree with surfer. I don't find that the partial bugnet of a top cover really makes a great difference in allowing moisture from breath vapor to escape. I have the moon roof top cover on the Chameleon, which has about a 1/4 - 1/3 length section where the solid cover can be fully removed leaving bugnet for venting. This allows you to set up with a much larger vent area than the standard asymmetric top cover, but even using the moon roof fully open, I still wake up with major amounts of wetness on the TQ and inside of the top cover.

At a cursory glance, it would seem like breath might vent out through the mesh. But I now think of it like this: I am laying on my back, breathing through my nostrils, which are pointing directly toward my feet. That's where my breath goes, toward my feet, not out the mesh opening above my head.

[cmc4free]

As for "some other tool," you might consider trying a balaclava to wear while you sleep. It's not the most comfortable thing, covering your face and nose all night, but it does keep your face warm and I find that my topquilt is much dryer or even totally dry in the morning if I sleep in a balaclava and no top cover or bugnet on the hammock.

Of course, this doesn't really address wind or your body warmth; it's just a suggestion for mitigating moisture.

[BillyBob58]

Ok... I've learned about the evils of condensation long ago. Wrapping myself up in a sock sounds like a receipt for wetness.

I'm not going to do deep winter camping but I do snowshoe and like to hang out in mild winter (>10 deg. F typically) conditions. I think a underquilt protector of some sort would add enough wind protection to keep me happy. I bought a netted hammock so I know even that will add some wind protection and I can always throw something over the ridge to mitigate some of the wind.

I'm kind of envisioning an underquilt cover with a 3/4 top cover as the perfect solution. Breathable enough to allow water vapor out but enough of a wind break to mitigate drafts.

I have a HG Incubator & Burrow 20 deg.

Any recommendations?

Have you checked out 2QZQ UQP? I think those are pretty popular, plus they have one that is capable of holding a pad snug up against the hammock bottom for those that might have a need for such as that.

It is for sure that condensation is a potential big problem with an UQP, but even worse with a top cover. But not for me. And I use UQPs that are not even breathable. I am a fan of both at least sometimes. YMMV.

99% of my UQP experience has been with the Sil-nylon under cover of the HHSS. This has never failed me in 12 years of intermittent use, and has never given me enough condensation to even worry about. But there is a trick required(which in itself adds some more warmth): since the under cover is an outside layer, cold side(condensation happens when warm vapor contacts something colder) non breathable layer, and also a vapor barrier, condensation is to be expected. Though I have got away with it once or twice, until I didn't big time. But by keeping a warm side VB between the hammock and all under insulation, so that my body heat keeps it pretty warm(it is as insulated as my back is), I basically do not get condensation. And there are a few other folks here with the same experience. If I ever do get a small bit of condensation(which, really, I do not), it could not get into my under insulation anyway. This system has proven to be bomb proof for me over the years, giving great protection even when used with a small tarp. Wind or wind driven side ways rain or splash up have simply not been an issue, even when the wind is bouncing my hammock around.

Lately, I have been experimenting with the War Bonnet Poncho/UQP for the RR bridge hammock, but I am still experimenting with that. It is also Sil-nylon, so condensation is a concern. But I have not had any yet during the short time I have played with it. It hangs with a little space on the sides between the UQ and the UQP, and even more space on the bottom. At least when using the Climashield AHE Ridge Creek UQ. So if condensation does occur, maybe it will not be in contact with the UQ and will simply drain out of the head opening hole of the poncho. Maybe. But if it becomes a problem, I will just turn this into a HH style super shelter, by putting a space blanket on top of the UQ to keep my body moisture from reaching and condensing in the insulation. I'm sure it will work. I am not sure if this is going to do as good of a job of keeping the wind out as my HH does, because the loose sides were billowing around in the wind, maybe allowing some little breeze to get down under the quilt from the top and removing some of the warmer air. But I can tell it will be at least some help, and just as much help against side ways rain and splash up as any other UQP.

As for the over cover, I am not familiar with any except the HH. It adds maybe 10* or a bit more and blocks the wind well, it is breathable, but some what water resistant. Sometimes I can tell that humidity has gone up when using it. The only time I put it to the test, at 6F, with no tarp, I was expecting a ton of condensation. But, amazingly, I got none at all. Except on my frost bib, where I was expecting it. I suppose the combination of VB clothing and that frost bib kept me bone dry. (ironically, even with no top cover, but also no frost bib, I have soaked the part of my TQ closest to my face from condensation of my breath on the surface of my TQ) I don't know if the frost bib alone would have done as well, but it certainly would have helped.

If you can escape the condensation, you will add a lot of protection and added warmth with such an approach. But most people seem to have a lot of problems with the condensation. I'm just not one of them, for some reason.

[SilvrSurfr]

At a cursory glance, it would seem like breath might vent out through the mesh. But I now think of it like this: I am laying on my back, breathing through my nostrils, which are pointing directly toward my feet. That's where my breath goes, toward my feet, not out the mesh opening above my head.

Totally agree. The bugnet on my Chameleon topcover is on the side. Even if I were to sleep on my side, and roll my head back lack Jesus on the cross, my nostrils would still be aimed down at my feet, and nothing vents. I think the only reason they even include bugnet "vents" on topcovers is so you don't suffocate!

[SilvrSurfr]

99% of my UQP experience has been with the Sil-nylon under cover of the HHSS. This has never failed me in 12 years of intermittent use, and has never given me enough condensation to even worry about.

Billybob58 - he's never had enough condensation to worry about!

Sometimes I wonder if that's because you're in Mississippi. I don't worry much about condensation if it's 30* F or above, but why would I even use a silnylon undercover, UQP, or topcover in that weather?

[cougarmeat]

If you zip up the sock, or bug net for that matter, all the way, you are going to simulate a closed single wall tent. But with the sock, you can keep the zipper open by/above your head and minimize condensation build up - but it is still a challenge. "Hammeck" vendor isn't around now, but they made a setup with a removable nylon panel and removable bug net. By "removable" I mean you could take it completely off or you could just unzip it part way. So you could use the panel for as much as you wanted - same with the netting. Great design.

It is just going to be a challenge. If you aren't "inside" then be sure to have a balaclava for your face. If you "batten down the hatches" with your tarp + doors, then you are essentially creating a sock but more volume to heat.

How do you keep airflow to minimize condensation build up while minimizing heat robbing air flow - that's the ponder. My UnderQuilt and TopQuilt are clearly up to the task. But I'd really need to bundle up my head/face if I was going to permit the kind of air flow that would not allow condensation. If I didn't use the sock, I'd at least use my breathable UQP. It just makes setup less critical with wind shifts and UQ adjustment.

[BillyBob58]

Billybob58 - he's never had enough condensation to worry about!

Sometimes I wonder if that's because you're in Mississippi. I don't worry much about condensation if it's 30* F or above, but why would I even use a silnylon undercover, UQP, or top cover in that weather?

Well, maybe it is indeed because I am in humid MS and not getting near as cold as you do. But, of course, when I say not enough to worry about, I mean not enough to notice. As in worst case scenario finding a few drops on the low point of the space blanket but not in the insulation or wetting the hammock or me. But, most often nothing at all. And even below 20F and even single digits, never a noticeable problem with the under cover. And even at 6F using an over cover as well as under, I'm betting at least as dry and probably drier than the average person not using either UC/UQP or over cover at single digits. True, I used a frost bib and VB clothing for that one, but I'm talking DRY(except for the frost bib). But with just the under cover, using just the space blanket, (no frost bibs or VB clothing) my insulation has been dry. I have usually been more damp using something like a down UQ and TQ all maxed out breathable, though probably only noticeable below 20F.

You prefer a larger, heavier, more expensive tarp. That is great. Sometimes I do also. But it takes a big tarp to match the wind, splash up and sideways rain protection of a sil-nylon under cover such as on the HHSS used even with a smaller tarp, or a larger tarp used in porch mode. All of those things can be a problem even at 30 or 40F.

I have had tremendous condensation on the inside of my tarps, which can be quite a hassle if pitched in a storm mode, as I try to avoid contacting the tarp and getting wet as I try to get up and then climb back in if I have get up during the night. I have even had that condensation rain on me, or snow! Have you never had any condensation issues with a tarp? And with the ends/doors closed, it can get even worse. So large tarp or small, I tend to prefer a wide and high pitch if possible. If it is windy, that is when an UQP shines. For me, at least.

You ask why any one would use any of these approaches if it was only 30F? I have been on 2 trips now(a little less than a week each) with a friend using down insulation. On one of those trips, I had my HHSS ( no over cover though) with lows in the mid to high 40s(WA state in Olympic NP) and on the other I had my 927FP down Speer Pea Pod, but routinely used a space blanket under my hammock even when it was not needed temp wise(in the Rockies, coldest night 27F, most nights in the 30s, 1 night of snow). On the last day of each of those trips, he was concerned because of loss of loft in his down, though his large tarp had kept all external moisture away from his down. There was no obvious wetting of the shells, but his insulation was noticeably less thick than when he started. He was even scrambling trying to get the down drier in the hotel room before packing it up for the trip home, in case it ended up being in the stuff sack for a couple of days.

Not me, I was in just as good a shape as day one, with no apparent difference. I don't know if part of his problem (on one trip anyway) was all of the humidity, fog and mist along the Hoh river in ONP. There was no sunshine for drying. Even though it was not apparent that his gear had gotten the least bit wet, maybe some of that humidity had crept into his down? Or maybe it was condensation of his own body vapor, even though not really cold?

I really don't know, but whatever the cause, it had no influence whatsoever on my system surrounded by my sweet sil-nylon under cover. So I am going to say it proved worthwhile for me in the mid to high 40s, even though it never even had to protect me from wind or blowing rain.

All this talk of those trips made me look for pics! Her is one of me sitting in that Pea Pod with the space blanket inside of it, at 10,600 ft in the Rockies, getting ready for a hike:

Here I am sitting in my HHSS with it's under cover and space blanket, about a stone's throw from the Hoh river, Olympic NP:


OT, but here was a shelter we hiked by in ONP:

[SilvrSurfr]

You prefer a larger, heavier, more expensive tarp.

Larger? Yes. More expensive? Yes. Heavier? Definitely not. My HG Winter Palace weighs 8.6 ounces.

I've never had even a bit of splash on my UQ, and I suspect the same is true of any 4-season tarp with doors. I also have never noticed any loss of warmth because of wind, because I have a 4-season tarp. If I were trying to get by with a skimpier tarp, then I might consider a UQP or undercover, but since I'm not, I don't!