Knot gurus... what knot is this?

**cmoulder** · 09-09-2018, 07:46

I stumbled across this while playing with bowline and kalmyk. It is for a fixed loop, with the advantages being it is super quick to tie, no feeding the tail to tie, and releases extremely easily. I've searched a bit and haven't been able to find it on various knot websites.

It seems as if it shouldn't work, like some Euro Death Knot, but it does. Not that I would ever suggest using it for climbing or shock loading. I've been using it on my tarp ridgeline for a couple of months and it has never failed. Recently I tied it with 2" kevlar and MikekiM and I pulled on it with all our combined weight plus as much ooomph as we could muster and it didn't budge a millimeter. It looks as if it might invert and that the slipped bight might get sucked thru the loop but it doesn't... when tied correctly, which is of course a crucial caveat for any knot.

The trick for dressing it is to pull the standing end and the slipped bight against each other.

I hope this photo sequence is clear enough but if it isn't I'll try to do a video next time I'm outside. Anyway, thanks for help IDing it and opinions about the advisability or stupidity of using it.

Unknown_Knot01.jpg Unknown_Knot02.jpg Unknown_Knot03.jpg Unknown_Knot03a.jpg Unknown_Knot04.jpg Unknown_Knot05.jpg

**HikerBro** · 09-09-2018, 08:27

Basically it's a slippery sheet bend. If there is a specific name for it, I don't know. Others will be along soon. Looks interesting!

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**MikekiM** · 09-09-2018, 08:38

Great job with the sequence..

In our application this knot replaced the Dutch Hook on the tarp ridge line(s).

I must have tied this a few dozen times that weekend and we did it in everything cordage we could find.. Zingit, 1" & 2" Kevlar, amsteel 7/64, utility cord, z-line; none slipped and all were a breeze to untie even after some serious loading. We darn near pulled the pole out of the ground with the amount of weight we put on it and still, it untied with a gentle tug.

The bite you hold in your left hand, is the working end, to the tarp in our application. The running end goes around the tree and gets the underhand loop. Underhand loop drops over the bite. Because muscle memory hadn't set in for me yet, I found the key step happens here, between your step five and six.. snugging the bite that originated in your left hands working end at the start, around the slipped bite you insert in step five. Then pulling the slipped bite against the working end..

Also, if you make an overhand loop in the running end instead of an underhand loop, it capsizes when you try to final-dress it..

I've scoured my resources and can't find anything that replicates this knot.. closest is a Kalmyk but not. It's not a bowline of any flavor.

So have you given thought to what you want to name it ?

**cmoulder** · 09-09-2018, 08:53

lol, well I think it's a little early to declare it novel!

It's so simple that surely it has been 'done' before, or done and discarded for good reason. Probably just making a fool of myself.

**sqidmark** · 09-09-2018, 09:07

While I watched you guys playing with this thing I have to admit it went completely over my head at the time. Now that I can follow the sequence myself, I can see how easy it really is. Thanks for posting this Bob!

**XJ35S** · 09-09-2018, 09:11

looks j bend-ish to me

**Snaps** · 09-09-2018, 09:18

I made this video awhile back. I'm not in a position to review your sequence, but is this the same thing?

https://youtu.be/tOWkiGUzeMA

**slugbait** · 09-09-2018, 09:55

The last pic looks a lot like a Carrick Bend if you were to pull the tail of the right hand loop all the way through.

**cmoulder** · 09-09-2018, 11:18

Originally Posted by DeltaNu1142

I made this video awhile back. I'm not in a position to review your sequence, but is this the same thing?

https://youtu.be/tOWkiGUzeMA

Aha, that's it! Just tied in a different way but the end result is identical. So it is indeed a slippery sheet bend... I had never seen it used to make a loop, however.

Well thanks, that was solved quickly.

**Phantom Grappler** · 09-13-2018, 11:56

Neither the photos nor video are a Kalmyk loop
Very similar and maybe mirror imaged.
The standing part, in video, is a bight.
The standing part in Kalmyk loop is the other part of knot. The standing part would trail away and connect to a leashed animal. Kalmyk loop is fixed loop used around a tree to tie caribou or horse so that it could circle tree many times without tangling and shortening its leash.
I would not use a fixed loop on a tree for tarp or hammock. It would not be cinched up close to tree. Instead I’d use a Siberian hitch
I can be wrong. The proof is in the pudding.

Standing part in photos might also be a bight.
I tried to tie it as shown. When tightening knot standing part became a bight. It did hold against me pulling with both hands. And released easily, your photo knot disappears when ripcord is pulled
exploding knot!

In Kalmyk loop only one side of bight gets stressed. The other side dangles.
In both of other knots, both sides of bight get stressed—-possibly enough to straighten bight into a straight part of knot, then it would no longer be fixed loop. It would cinch close to tree and I’m not sure it would hold.

Still I have doubts about what I’ve said—-you said it worked great. And if it works great—-there you go!