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Thread: Knots for tarps

  1. #1
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    Knots for tarps

    Hi,

    A few days ago I went on my first solo overnighter, which I hoped would be peaceful and stress relieving. Apparently I didn't read the weather forecast thoroughly, because just a few hours after setting up the hammock, a thunderstorm surprised me.

    The rain made my taut line hitches slip, which holds my tarp line. This caused the tarp to sag - then the wind caught it, the pegs came up and I became very very wet. Therefore I am looking for a new way to secure my tarp.
    I currently use an amsteel line which is tied to the trees with taut line hitches. The tarp is tied onto the line with prusik knots.

    Is there a better way to do this?
    I've looked online and I found a few different methods, but I need a setup that I know I can trust - also in a thunderstorm. Should I use something different than amsteel? It seemed like the taut line hitches didn't "bite" the rope properly, and that made them slip. Should I use different knots? Or maybe tie the tarp directly to the trees on each ends?

    What will keep me dry in a thunderstorm? What do you do?

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    I have shock cord loops on my tie outs and then use Lash it from the loop to the stake. I use a truckers hitch to tighten it up and lock it down with a slippery half hitch. The shock cord flexes and keeps it tight wind, rain or shine.

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    Senior Member Pennsy Camp and Canoe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mjbine View Post
    I have shock cord loops on my tie outs and then use Lash it from the loop to the stake. I use a truckers hitch to tighten it up and lock it down with a slippery half hitch. The shock cord flexes and keeps it tight wind, rain or shine.
    I do the same, plus I'm using Dutchware on my ridgeline. You could try a truckers hitch to tighten the ridgeline.

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    Amsteel does not take knots well at all, and a tautline is sure to slip. Also, Amsteel is pretty stout for tarp applications, though you can use it if you want to. If you want to go with knots, you can get something like the Niteize reflective cord which takes a knot really well and has the added benefit of lighting up at night:

    https://www.amazon.com/Nite-Ize-Refl...34562729&psc=1

    If you want to go with a dyneema fiber cord similar to Amsteel, check out Zing-it or Lash-it which are 1.75mm cords which are very popular as tarp ridge lines. Like Amsteel, they do not take knots well, so you'll likely want some type of hardware. I find the Niteize Figure-9's (small size) work well:

    https://www.amazon.com/Nite-Ize-F9S-...70_&dpSrc=srch
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    Knots for tarps

    The right hardware-Bling is fast and holds without
    slipping. The wrong hardware can damage your rope, especially if it has “teeth” that bite into rope.
    Still, I like knots! Maybe this will help if you decide to use knots for your tarp ridgeline.
    Tautline Hitch as taught in Boy Scout Handbook is tied wrong! There were two forms of tautline hitch—one for using on rope and the other for using on poles. Scout Handbook used correct method for a while and then switched to incorrect method for many years.
    Use midshipman’s hitch as correct version of tautline hitch on ropes.
    The difference is so subtle that I use neither one so I don’t get confused.
    The wrong configuration will slip.

    I use Farrimond friction hitch because it unties instantly. There are other slip and grip hitches that have more resistance to slipping. Blake’s hitch, which can be tied in a slipped version.
    And there are others

    To increase resistance to slipping, add an extra wrap-coil or two. And always hand tighten to make it grip better.
    Last edited by Phantom Grappler; 08-13-2018 at 10:07.

  6. #6
    Senior Member Grumpy Squatch's Avatar
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    As others have said, Zing-It and Lash-It are both coated ropes so they slide better which reduces their holding capability. Over time this coating can wear off and the knots will hold better, but it takes a bit of time. IMHO these cords are way overkill for tarp use.

    With any kind of friction holding knot like a prussik or midshipman's/tautline, you might be able to add a few additional turns to help the situation, but no guarantees if you stretch your ridgeline super-tight. The Farrimond Friction Hitch that Phantom Grappler describes is essentially a multi-turn prussik used like a midshipman's hitch. Regarding rope friction, The Animated Knots site has this to say:

    Choice of Rope: When Ashley wrote his book, tarred hemp was widely used and knots usually held reliably. Three strand twisted nylon is more slippery and a Midshipman's Hitch may slide over time – an extra turn on the first part and/or an extra half hitch may prevent this. Some modern ropes are far more slippery: with Spectra®, Dyneema®, and Polypropylene, it is wise to assume that a Midshipman's Hitch will just slide.
    I assume you went around the tree and tied the knot at the tree side with either a continuous ridgeline. You may have better luck changing this by moving the tautline closer to the tarp. Prussiks and similar hitches hold better when the load is perfectly paralell to the standing part of the rope. If the tree you tie to is large diameter the vee that is formed can reduce the holding strength of a tautline hitch. You might try a split ridgeline where the rope is fixed to the tree (with a timber hitch for example) and runs straight to the eye or whatever on the tarp, then loops back and is tied near the tarp end (a trucker's hitch wouls also be effective here). Basically, this is how most Dutch bling works: Stingerz, Flyz, and Wasps all end up like this. The end result should have the load pulling parallel with the rope from the tree. A half-hitch backing knot might also help.

    Me, I just use a set of Dutch Stingerz and don't worry about it anymore.
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  7. #7
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    I moved away from prussiks and a CRL for the tarp.

    I now have lines (zing-it) at each end of the tarp and use tarp flyz from Dutch.

    Stands up well to heavy winds.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grumpy Squatch View Post
    As others have said, Zing-It and Lash-It are both coated ropes so they slide better which reduces their holding capability. Over time this coating can wear off and the knots will hold better, but it takes a bit of time. IMHO these cords are way overkill for tarp use.

    With any kind of friction holding knot like a prussik or midshipman's/tautline, you might be able to add a few additional turns to help the situation, but no guarantees if you stretch your ridgeline super-tight. The Farrimond Friction Hitch that Phantom Grappler describes is essentially a multi-turn prussik used like a midshipman's hitch. Regarding rope friction, The Animated Knots site has this to say:



    I assume you went around the tree and tied the knot at the tree side with either a continuous ridgeline. You may have better luck changing this by moving the tautline closer to the tarp. Prussiks and similar hitches hold better when the load is perfectly paralell to the standing part of the rope. If the tree you tie to is large diameter the vee that is formed can reduce the holding strength of a tautline hitch. You might try a split ridgeline where the rope is fixed to the tree (with a timber hitch for example) and runs straight to the eye or whatever on the tarp, then loops back and is tied near the tarp end (a trucker's hitch wouls also be effective here). Basically, this is how most Dutch bling works: Stingerz, Flyz, and Wasps all end up like this. The end result should have the load pulling parallel with the rope from the tree. A half-hitch backing knot might also help.

    Me, I just use a set of Dutch Stingerz and don't worry about it anymore.
    I will second the use of Dutch Bling (stingerz). I tried a continuous ridgeline (using a nylon-based cord) with Prussiks, I tried just straight tying to a treet with a tautline hitch (nylon/cotton cord). I had all kinds of issues (never with slippage, though. Ouch!). The knots would jam. Getting the tarp centered over my hammock was tedious. Couldn't get things quite tight enough. Finally just took time to examine another hanger's setup with Stingerz and Zing-it. I was sold. Quick deployment. Gets things nice and tight. I think the key is trying a few setups and figuring out what you like the most and can deploy consistently for a dry hang. Good luck!

  9. #9
    Senior Member sidneyhornblower's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SebastianLondal View Post
    Hi,

    I currently use an amsteel line which is tied to the trees with taut line hitches. The tarp is tied onto the line with prusik knots.

    Is there a better way to do this?
    It's not the knots you chose so much as the amsteel line itself. As others have pointed out, it's slick and the knots won't bite quite as well. If it were me, I'd just change lines and keep using those knots. With some of the reflective lines that are "grabbier" taut line hitches and prusiks should hold just fine.

    Alternately, you can order some zingit and use various pieces of Dutchware bling. Or you can order a premade continuous tarp ridgeline and try that. Dutchwear will sell you one with all the hardware attached. You'd still need to do something different with your lines coming off the tarp though. That's why I'd suggest some of the reflective tarp lines. I think mine came from Lawson, or perhaps they were a gift. I cannot remember at this point. They definitely hold a knot better than amsteel, though.
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  10. #10
    SilvrSurfr's Avatar
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    I'm not a knot lover - the less knots, the better. I use a Dutchware continuous ridgeline, which has a couple of soft shackle prusiks, but I don't really consider those knots since you only tie them once and never have to tie them again (or you can just order a continuous ridgeline from Dutch and they come already done for you).

    https://dutchwaregear.com/product/co...type-and-color



    I dislike shock cord almost as much as I dislike knots (I have no shock cord in my hammock system), so I avoid the TATO Tarp connectors:



    https://dutchwaregear.com/product/tato-tarp-connectors/

    As for tarp guylines, I'm definitely not interested in hardware. I use Zing-It 1.75 larksheaded to the tarp tie-outs, then a marlin spike hitch on the stake. I can't imagine that a hardware solution would be any better.

    So basically, the only knot I really ever use in my setup is the marlin spike hitch on the tarp stakes. The Zing-It is permanently larksheaded onto the tarp, so I don't have to remember that knot (though it's easy to remember). Other than the marlin spike hitch and larkshead, the only other knot I ever use is the slippery half hitch!
    "A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds." Ralph Waldo Emerson

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