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  1. #1
    Senior Member Tacblades's Avatar
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    Talking The ULU Up Loft Underquilt Idea ?

    The Up Loft Underquilt (ULU)

    Need your collective brains on this one, its a crazy sacrificial lamb of an idea that I want to throw to the lions.

    Underquits, nearly all quilts work on the Down Loft principal, the quilts are suspended in various ways from the top surface of the quilt and the bottom is free so they loft down to provide the insulation.
    The trick is to match the top surface of the quilt with the under surface of the hammock precisely to prevent air gaps. Now this is all fine with clews or secondary suspension etc but can be tricky and can be difficult for first timers. Also this means the quilt has to be designed from the beginning with the suspension style in mind.

    ulu1.jpg

    What would happen if we created a Loft Up Underquilt. So the quilt is suspended from the bottom surface of the quilt and then it lofts up to perfectly match the under surface of the hammock.

    ulu2.jpg

    This could be done in many ways but one way could be a nano noseeum hammock that is suspended below the main hammock with a gap for the underquilt. It would have to be very light and a bit stretchy and set right not to compress the quilt and allow loft up.

    Or another simpler way could be like a section of the hammock has a nano noseeum part underneath it with an adjustable gap connected to the edge seam of the hammock, so no suspension needed and lighter easier to adjust. This would also automatically conform to the shape of the hammock with the person at a diagonal.

    ulu3.jpg

    One advantage would be that the underquilt is then a much simpler design just a plain rectangle that sits there, so easy to change and also use other things like a old sleeping bag unzipped or other things that are just a rectangle of insulation. Or modular like maybe thin underquilts and different numbers of for different seasons. You could also get away with very thin fabric like membrane 7 as it will have no loads on it.
    So this is separating the suspension of the underquilt from the quilt itself.

    What do you think, possible ? worth exploring ? too many issues to overcome ? interesting discussion at least

    Last edited by Tacblades; 07-12-2018 at 14:29.
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  2. #2
    XJ35S's Avatar
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    I'm a noob so not a lot of value to my thoughts. I think anything that holds the UQ from the bottom is going to create compression. No matter how much loft there is. It will prevent air gaps for certain. Enough loft could still be warm and comfortable.

    So if I understand what I read, It's a double layer hammock with a hyper lite bottom adjustable layer?

  3. #3
    Senior Member Tacblades's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by XJ35S View Post
    I'm a noob so not a lot of value to my thoughts. I think anything that holds the UQ from the bottom is going to create compression. No matter how much loft there is. It will prevent air gaps for certain. Enough loft could still be warm and comfortable.

    So if I understand what I read, It's a double layer hammock with a hyper lite bottom adjustable layer?
    Not quite its another independent layer with a fixed gap to allow for loft.

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  4. #4
    Senior Member Flash Grundelore's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tacblades View Post
    Not quite its another independent layer with a fixed gap to allow for loft.
    Isn't the gap going to be too various depending on hanger weight/ hammock fabric/ etc?
    Even "scroonching" around inside the hammy is going to change the gap...
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  5. #5
    Senior Member Tacblades's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flash Grundelore View Post
    Isn't the gap going to be too various depending on hanger weight/ hammock fabric/ etc?
    Even "scroonching" around inside the hammy is going to change the gap...
    Dont know maybe

    If its slung under the hammock from the edges of the hammock and not on a separate suspension then it should conform and keep a constant gap to the hammock not matter the shape. But i might mock something up to see as its tricky to predict.


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  6. #6
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    Some thoughts, after having doddled on this topic more than most people:

    If the underquilt is not matched to the hammock somehow, changes in hammock geometry do not propagate to the quilt. The result is that, for example, you sit in the hammock making a butt-indentation. This makes a thin spot in the quilt layer while remaining lofty everywhere else. This happens because the butt-indentation was on the hammock (which is now angled) but not the quilt (which is still flat-ish). Or if you twist in the hammock, that twist is not reflected in the quilt, making one side thing and other well padded. I hope that made sense.

    Getting a loft-up quilt to work is much like getting a sewn-threw blanket to work: the key is consistent, light pressure. It doesn't respond well to getting smashed ovbviously. I have a feeling that would be rather fiddly and NOT be very newbie friendly.

    The other danger is that, for whatever reason, it does not loft up enough. In that case, you have a big gap. That might happen if you have low quality filler, or if you just pulled it out of a stuff sack. Most underquilts don't provide that much physical loft, so margin for error is very small with a loft-up concept. (i.e. it will tend to either be crushed or leave a gap).

    With the "big mesh sack" concept, the problem i see with that is that everything in a hammock eventually falls to the middle. If you put an old sleeping bag or costco blanket in there, it would eventually wad up in the bottom. It would be an eternal struggle to keep the shoulder and foot areas in place.

    I had many of these same ideas in mind when i put together designs for the Gemini underquilt. It's "winter mode" is basically a blanket on a clew with an extra blanket carefully placed in the middle. It avoids moving around by having the edges and corners KAM-snapped into place. It avoids crushing by using a very fine 1/32" shockcord clew. Even then, you have to instruct people to suspend it lightly.

    (I also disagree that a clew suspension needs to have it factored into the quilt's initial design. I think one of it's greatest strengths is that you can retro-hack virtually any kind of "blanket type thing" into a good underquilt. It's weakness is that it's DIY only and most people wont take the time.)

    Verdict: I think the differentially cut, loft-down approach is still the ideal way to go, but look forward to seeing any proof of concepts.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tacblades View Post
    Dont know maybe

    If its slung under the hammock from the edges of the hammock and not on a separate suspension then it should conform and keep a constant gap to the hammock not matter the shape. But i might mock something up to see as its tricky to predict.
    Surprisingly, it makes an even bigger gap. And that's only if you are in the hammock. If you get out, it piles up on the floor. It must be suspended lengthwise.

  8. #8
    Senior Member Tacblades's Avatar
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    All good feedback.

    I am not a fan of the clew but i do like the secondary suspension old style that works for me.

    So the key aspect of this approach is to have the constant gap under the hammock no matter what is happening in the hammock and yes this seems to be difficult.

    I will do a few mock ups to see what actually happens i have a few ideas to try.

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  9. #9
    HandyRandy's Avatar
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    Maybe you’re throwing the baby out with the bath water here? Conventional UQ’s work well. They just have this minor flaw.

    How about a hybrid approach? Think of how some mattresses have a soft memory foam topper. What if you use a conventional UQ design, but add another layer above it that lofts up? It might be best to use synthetic insulation for this top layer.

  10. #10
    Senior Member Dynamystic's Avatar
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    Interesting topic. I was just contemplating almost exactly along these lines the other day for making a new hammock for my 6 mo old. I was thinking of a noseeum mesh pocket like you described, integrated into the hammock with perhaps a knotty mod type elastic suspension in the mesh to draw the insulation closer to the hammock if needed. Might even work as a pad pocket? Make the pocket out of a breathable waterproof fabric and it might serve as a quilt protector as well?

    I understand the concerns about compression, fiddle factors, and the possibility for the insulation to puddle to the center but it would certainly be convenient to have a hammock that I could insulate by tossing in any blanket, etc that I happen to have lying around. In my opinion, a little insulation compression would be better than cold air seeping into a gap. The idea of a little loft up "pillow top" insulation on the top side of an underquilt is another good idea for the cold air gap that I'd never thought of.

    Tacblades, I'm very curious to see what you mock up. I've been meaning to put something together but have been totally preoccupied with another project and haven't gotten to it. Maybe this weekend I'll try to see what I can do.

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