Interested in backpacking w/ a hammock - but I have concerns! (and so many questions)

[alt.thomas]

My concern about quilts is drafts -- what if you turn over in your sleep and leave your back exposed?? It just seems a mummy style bag would be more heat-efficient. But of course they are heavier.

Had to spend nights on a cold and windy ridge line a few times. There is no way to keep the constant barrage of wind from stealing warmth from the UQ. What kept a bad night from being horrible was having a cut-down Zlite pad directly under me along with my full length UQ. To save a little weight, I now usually bring a shortened closed cell foam pad from Gossemar Gear during winter/shoulder season. It quadruples as back support for my backpack, a very comfy sit pad, and either used for enjoying quick naps or if I'm forced to sleep on the ground.

[Shug]

I'm not an experienced camper or hiker, but the few experiences I've had have been so gratifying that I've decided to take up backpack camping and invest in some quality gear. I'm still debating whether to go the ground-sleeping route or a hammock set-up. I really want to do the hammock thing, but two things hold me back:

1 - Tarps. Not being an experienced camper, I really know nothing about rigging lines or tying knots, and I'm worried that the learning curve will have me getting rained on. A tent with a rain fly just seems easier and more secure - if not as comfortable.

2 - This is the biggie: warmth vs weight. I'm a 130lb woman and I sleep cold (even for a woman). I live in Ontario, Canada and if I want to camp into the shoulder seasons (I do) this means I'd need to be comfortable into temps just below freezing. But I'm also a solo camper/hiker - I need my pack to be lightweight because I'm just not that strong (yet). It seems that a set-up that would keep me warm wouldn't be that light.

Even with these worries, I'm still leaning towards a hammock set-ups because I just love laying in hammocks! I'm considering a WBBB or perhaps a DH Darien, but I would need a lot of help picking out the configuration.

Can anyone suggest a quilt or lightweight sleeping bag that would work in both a hammock and on the ground? What Comfort Rating should I be looking for? I keep thinking i need one that is at least Comfort -9C for me to be ok in -1C, or am I exaggerating? I'll probably use thermal baselayers to sleep.

Thanks so much and I love reading about this community!

I have a bunch of videos on all the topics you are asking about.
If you want pick around and peruse and maybe get some insight to the hammock quest.
Playlists.....https://www.youtube.com/view_all_playlists
Carry forth and enjoy the journey.
Hammock How-To.....https://www.youtube.com/playlist?lis...752777861C2AA8
Shug

[unstuck]

I have a bunch of videos on all the topics you are asking about.
If you want pick around and peruse and maybe get some insight to the hammock quest.
Playlists.....https://www.youtube.com/view_all_playlists
Carry forth and enjoy the journey.
Hammock How-To.....https://www.youtube.com/playlist?lis...752777861C2AA8
Shug

Of course, I've been watching your videos non-stop all weekend!! Informative *and* entertaining! You are far braver than I, sir, to camp out in a Minnesota winter. But you are an inspiration.

[unstuck]

Had to spend nights on a cold and windy ridge line a few times. There is no way to keep the constant barrage of wind from stealing warmth from the UQ. What kept a bad night from being horrible was having a cut-down Zlite pad directly under me along with my full length UQ. To save a little weight, I now usually bring a shortened closed cell foam pad from Gossemar Gear during winter/shoulder season. It quadruples as back support for my backpack, a very comfy sit pad, and either used for enjoying quick naps or if I'm forced to sleep on the ground.

Hm. I think the Dutch Socks make sense in this scenario -- I was evening wondering if the summer sock would help with shoulder season, just to keep the UQ protected from wind. But it weights 344g, which is more than a lightweight pad.

[SilvrSurfr]

This is because I'm such a wuss to cold and why I'm getting 10F rated quilts.

At 130 lbs., I don't think you're going to be able to backpack with 10* quilts, at least not more than a couple of miles.

I can't imagine trying to backpack with 10* F quilts. I've never gone more than 4 miles with my 0* quilts (and that was only because I loaned my 20* quilts to someone else). The bulk will surprise you - you just can't pack quilts that large down to a manageable size. I basically can't carry my 0* quilts in my 50 liter pack - I have to use my 70 liter pack and even then, there's not a lot of room. It's not fun, and I'm 5'11" and 165 lbs.

My first quilts were a HG 20* Burrow topquilt and 3/4 Phoenix underquilt. The size is manageable, and for three-season camping, more than adequate. I used those quilts for two years before eventually getting 40* and 0* quilt sets.

I subscribe to the 10* buffer rule - make sure that your quilts are rated at least 10* lower than the expected lows. So basically, I won't take my 20* quilts unless the expected low is 30* F. I prefer 3/4 underquilts for 30* F and above, but full-length underquilts for anything below that. I hate cold feet!

As cold as you think you are, you just might want to rethink getting quilts that seriously restrict your ability to backpack. And don't invent a 30* buffer rule until you have a little experience with quilts!

[unstuck]

At 130 lbs., I don't think you're going to be able to backpack with 10* quilts, at least not more than a couple of miles.

I can't imagine trying to backpack with 10* F quilts. I've never gone more than 4 miles with my 0* quilts (and that was only because I loaned my 20* quilts to someone else). The bulk will surprise you - you just can't pack quilts that large down to a manageable size. I basically can't carry my 0* quilts in my 50 liter pack - I have to use my 70 liter pack and even then, there's not a lot of room. It's not fun, and I'm 5'11" and 165 lbs.

My first quilts were a HG 20* Burrow topquilt and 3/4 Phoenix underquilt. The size is manageable, and for three-season camping, more than adequate. I used those quilts for two years before eventually getting 40* and 0* quilt sets.

I subscribe to the 10* buffer rule - make sure that your quilts are rated at least 10* lower than the expected lows. So basically, I won't take my 20* quilts unless the expected low is 30* F. I prefer 3/4 underquilts for 30* F and above, but full-length underquilts for anything below that. I hate cold feet!

As cold as you think you are, you just might want to rethink getting quilts that seriously restrict your ability to backpack.

Oh.. oh. ****. Well that's a problem then. I was looking at weight, but not really volume. I guess if I have to go to 20F quilts that would probably restrict my season - as I mentioned above, I've only ever summer camped specifically because I'm such a cold-wuss, so perhaps there isn't a way around that. Then again, I don't have experience sleeping surrounded by down in temperatures close to freezing, so who knows!

[gunner76]

welcome to the madness. Don't be afraid to ask questions. The only stupid question is the one you did not ask.

Find a group hang in your area and attend even if it is just to visit so you can check out the gear and see how it is being used. If you ask nicely most of us will let you get in our hammocks to check them out. If you let the group know in advance then they may have enough extra gear to loan you. I have converted a few people to the dark side because I was willing to let them try a hammock set up for a night. If you do decide to get a hammock set up; them be sure to practice setting it up before you take out in the woods.

1 - Tarps. Not being an experienced camper, I really know nothing about rigging lines or tying knots, and I'm worried that the learning curve will have me getting rained on. A tent with a rain fly just seems easier and more secure - if not as comfortable.

With the gear available from our vendors, you do not need to know how to tie a knot to rig your tarp and or hammock. A properly set up hammock and tarp will be drier than using a tent. I attended a group hang where the only person to get wet during a frog strangler of a rain storm was the one person using a tent. Her trail name is now Soggy Bottoms.

2 - This is the biggie: warmth vs weight. I'm a 130lb woman and I sleep cold (even for a woman). I live in Ontario, Canada and if I want to camp into the shoulder seasons (I do) this means I'd need to be comfortable into temps just below freezing. But I'm also a solo camper/hiker - I need my pack to be lightweight because I'm just not that strong (yet). It seems that a set-up that would keep me warm wouldn't be that light.

If you are going with a hammock them you will be going with a down TQ and UQ as down quilts are light weight and they compress small. Sounds like you will need your quilts to be rated to 20 degrees F. I always order two ounces of over stuff when I order quilts. Look for something in the 850 to 950 fill range. Lower fill quilts will cost less but will require more down ( and weight ) to achieve the desired warmth rating. You can save some weight and bulk by going with a 3/4 length UQ. For The Terminator, ( she is 5ft 3 ) a 3/4 length UQ is almost a full length. If my feet get cold with a 3/4 UQ, I throw my jacket down at the foot end and place my feet on top for insulation. Some people use a small Closed Cell Foam pad to insulated their feet but that is one more thing to carry and if is cold then I will have a jacket.

If you keep an eye out on the For Sale part of the forum you can often pick up used gear as a good price.

[dakotaross]

My concern about quilts is drafts -- what if you turn over in your sleep and leave your back exposed?? It just seems a mummy style bag would be more heat-efficient. But of course they are heavier.

"back exposed" - That's a great point... when you're on the ground. Many who use quilts on the ground use wide versions to account for tossing and turning. But who wants to toss and turn? You won't do it as much in a hammock, and if using an underquilt, then together they form the same "enclosed" insulation that is a sleeping bag. Trust us, you do not want to use a bag in a hammock... not zipped up anyway. If you have a good bag and want to spend your $$ elsewhere, then you can certainly use the bag, unzipped and draped over you. You certainly can zip up in a bag in a hammock if you want to. Again, trust us, you really don't want to do that.

Oh I'd definitely be getting a gathered-end hammock since I'm looking for the lightest weight option. Asym makes sense. I think a bugnet is a must but other than that, I want to keep it simple and lightweight

I think you're an ideal candidate for a Bonefire hammock with built in insulation on bottom. But not only that, he has a real neat system for attaching a tarp. About knots... there's a Dutch app for that, and Jeremy uses some Dutch hardware that attaches to the suspension which eliminates some ridgeline fiddle - its a real elegant solution. I just think for newer folks that haven't been out much, there can be a lot to figure out - we always talk about the learning curve - and if you can limit the modularity some, you stand to enjoy it more out of the gate. His hammock is expensive, but if you add the cost of an UQ along with an integrated net hammock, you're right there, and with less overall weight likely. He makes a sweet backpack, too.

[SilvrSurfr]

Oh.. oh. ****. Well that's a problem then. I was looking at weight, but not really volume. I guess if I have to go to 20F quilts that would probably restrict my season - as I mentioned above, I've only ever summer camped specifically because I'm such a cold-wuss, so perhaps there isn't a way around that. Then again, I don't have experience sleeping surrounded by down in temperatures close to freezing, so who knows!

There's a lot of experimentation involved - down is incredible in keeping you warm. Many people subscribe to the idea that you can supplement the warmth your quilts provide by wearing more clothing, heavy socks, down booties, etc. None of that stuff works for me. If I have to supplement, I feel I have the wrong quilts in the first place. I sleep in my hammock near naked - if I have the right quilts, I don't need anything else!

Now I have my beagle Joey - he's incredible insulation. Sometimes I'll move him around to insulate where I'm cold.

[unstuck]

I think you're an ideal candidate for a Bonefire hammock with built in insulation on bottom. But not only that, he has a real neat system for attaching a tarp. About knots... there's a Dutch app for that, and Jeremy uses some Dutch hardware that attaches to the suspension which eliminates some ridgeline fiddle - its a real elegant solution. I just think for newer folks that haven't been out much, there can be a lot to figure out - we always talk about the learning curve - and if you can limit the modularity some, you stand to enjoy it more out of the gate. His hammock is expensive, but if you add the cost of an UQ along with an integrated net hammock, you're right there, and with less overall weight likely. He makes a sweet backpack, too.

The Bonefire Whisper is intriguing. I do like how simple it all is. The UQ built into it is 30F rated, which is higher than I would want (I was thinking 10 or 20) but I guess you could supplement it with a pad (or even an additional UQ?)