I tried searching for this but came up empty. Is it practical to use an insulated sleeping pad in a bridge hammock down to the 20s (and sleep comfortably)?
I tried searching for this but came up empty. Is it practical to use an insulated sleeping pad in a bridge hammock down to the 20s (and sleep comfortably)?
That is so dependent on the person that the only way to truly know is to backyard test it before going on the trip. I would never go backpacking prior to testing a pad for warmth. Some users have reported success other like me didn't like the pad as it didn't provide enough warmth and it caused condensation making me even colder.
I like downy goodness. For me, nothing is lighter, more luxurious, or packs down smaller. That being said, I only backpack three days at a clip. Maybe if I was in a humid area I'd go for a synthetic UQ. Nothing beats down though overall.
When temps are below 25 I use both a pad and underquilt. A ridge rest and a HG 30 incubator
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Here's my general experience-Originally Posted by Spickus
Air pads (Neo air style like x-lite or x-therm):
Your three season xlite is a summer only pad... craps out around 45*
Winter Xtherm... craps out around 25*.
You could supplement either with a 1/8" foam or reflectex for better performance.
I use the Exped Hyperlight series...
The three seasons go a bit further into 35ish.
I just got a winter HL but didn't get to test it much, but it didn't do as well as I'd hoped because the end baffles are not insulated so I had chilly edges.
The hyperlight Duo takes me to near 20.
I don't own one... but down filled pads do get pushed pretty deep by many here. Look into the pads people are using in an amok but you will see people who easily use a downmat to zero. So anything working in that hammock will work in a bridge hammock too.
Otherwise... I'm with the others. In temps below 20* I will either... use my pad on the ground. Or use an UQ. Since I'm only out for a weekend these days in winter I don't need the versatility of a pad... though I have used them and simply gone to ground if it was colder as all the pads mentioned above do much better with the xtherm taking me to zero without too much trouble.
This is a really nice combo too!
Without any question, at least IMO and based on my experience and that of many others. You can go to minus 20 or colder if needed, as there is at least one member here ( Ducttape ? ) who has done so. He actually switches from UQs to pads in the coldest part of the year.
My first ever truly toasty winter night in a hammock was when I used my new (years ago )Speer Segmented Pad Extender(SPE) to stack two thin pads in a gathered hammock. These were a full length 0.6" Thermarest RidgeRest CCF with a 2.6R value, and my even more ancient Thermarest self inflating "Ultralight" 1" thick torso length, also I believe 2.6R, or about. It was only 18F, but I had always struggled previously at that time with temps below 30F. But this night I was so warm from below that for the first time I was successful at using my sleeping bag as a quilt. I was pretty comfortable also. So it is simply a matter of having a thick enough pad. Which will also have the bonus of being pretty wind and water proof, and of course good for ground should the worst happen.
But if you are using a bridge, there is another bonus: pads, for me, are many times more comfortable in a bridge hammock than any other hammocks I have tried(I'm sure also in a 90º type hammock, maybe even more so in those). Particularly if the bridge has a pad pocket. But even if it didn't I'd still rather use a pad in a bridge with no pocket than in a non-bridge with a pocket. Plus a pad in a bridge tends to open them up a bit increasing shoulder room.
The only question is: how thick do you need? The ones I used had 2.6R + 2.6R = 5.2R. That not only took me warmly to 18F, but I no doubt could have gone a good bit lower before getting cold(assuming all wind blocked, but even then a pad is far more windproof than most quilts). But of course, YMMV. You can see in this old table from Youngblood(who designed the Speer SPE) that with CCF that was about 1" thick, and had an R value of 4.3, it was good in a hammock to about 17F. He also gives observed results with various self inflating pads. I figure if you have about 1" of CCF(but R values vary) at least under your butt and torso, you should be OK to below 20F. (you won't need as much under your legs. Just like in the example I gave above, I only had two pads stacked(1.2" thick, R5.2) under my torso. The full length that continued under my legs was only .6" and 2.6R, and that was still more than enough at 18F. But, my legs were inside a synthetic bag(used as quilt) footbox, so that may have added a bit, as it does not compress as much as down. And again, YMMV!
Some folks complain about condensation on their backs when using a pad in a hammock. Although I did not have any on that one night, it would not be a problem any way for me these days, as I often use a vapor barrier shirt next to my skin. So any body moisture could not escape to the pad in order to condense.
Some Observed Temperature Ratings for Combined Inflatable Pads and Closed Cell Foam Pads as Used in a Speer SPE
Therm-A-Rest Pads
Thickness (inches)
R-value
Without Extra Pads (°F)
With 1/4" cc Pad (°F)
With 3/8" cc Pad (°F)
With 1/2" cc Pad (°F)
ProLite 3
1
2.3
47
34
27
20
ProLite 4
1.5
3.2
38
25
18
---
Trail
1.25
4.2
28
15
---
---
Expedition
1.75
4.4
26
13
---
---
BaseCamp
1.75
5.8
12
---
---
---
Luxury Camp
2
6.1
9
---
---
---
UltraLite
1
2.6
44
31
24
17
GuideLite
1.5
3.8
32
19
---
---
LE
2
4.1
29
16
---
---
Explorer
1.5
4.7
23
10
---
---
Standard
1.75
5.8
12
---
---
---
Closed Cell Foam Pads
1/8
0.5
63
50
43
36
1/4
1.1
57
44
37
30
3/8
1.6
50
37
30
23
1/2
2.2
43
30
23
16
5/8
2.7
37
24
17
---
3/4
3.3
30
17
---
---
7/8
3.8
23
---
---
---
1.0
4.3
17
---
---
---
Last edited by BillyBob58; 03-30-2018 at 12:28.
Just to add what others have said - you can definitely sleep comfortably at low temperatures in the winter. You just need the right pad with enough R-Value to do it.
I've slept comfortably on several nights into the low 30s on my Exped Synmat 7 in my WBRR without being cold. I haven't tested it's lower limits (rarely gets cold enough in S. Texas to test that) but my guess is that it's probably somewhere in the 20s for me. I would be confident that a larger, higher R-value pad could take me to 0 or below.
That said, TrailSlug's advice is spot on. Test everything you want to use on winter trips to see how it performs for you in your setup. There are so many variables between how much heat your body produces, how you perceive that, what clothes (and what material) you wear (or don't wear), the thickness and insulation materials of the pad (synthetic, down, closed cell foam, etc.) - that what works well for one person might not work for another.
In the ultra-cold like minus 20s onemust think in systems, not individual pieces of gear. Most people will try something and claim it doesnt work when the reality is that piece of gear was not paired with other pieces to create an optimal system. As others have said, test things out. If it doesnt immediately wirk, try to determine why not and see how the other gear used either complemented or hindered it., then make adjustments to find the correct system. Just below freezing is usually the most difficult because of how variable the air is at that temp. Subzero is easier IMO.
"There's a whisper on the night-wind, there's a star agleam to guide us, And the Wild is calling, calling . . . let us go." -from "The Call of the Wild" by Robert Service
My Trail log: http://ducttapeadk.blogspot.com/
Agree... I'm of the mind (specially since talking to DuctTape about it) that a pad system is actually the better choice in deep winter. Foam seems the ideal insulation for this application as well.
Though the pulk to pack the bulk helps too, lol.
Not to nitpick... but most asking the question are trying to slap the ground pad they own in and see where it will take them.
I think that's where the OP was going... and generally how I use my ground pads in bridges. Slap one in without getting too complicated or buying extra stuff.
That said... plenty of ground dwellers supplementing a typical pad with a 1/8" or 1/4" CCF too so if you own that combo it works well enough to approach zero for many.
But if you get complicated... then lots of options and many of them even better ones that UQ's.
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