Page 3 of 5 FirstFirst 12345 LastLast
Results 21 to 30 of 44
  1. #21

    Join Date
    Nov 2017
    Location
    Rockingham, NC
    Hammock
    DIY ROBIC 1.2 double layer
    Tarp
    Kelty's Noah 12
    Insulation
    DIY bottom quilt
    Suspension
    DIY whoopies
    Posts
    121
    Quote Originally Posted by GadgetUK437 View Post
    What oz/yd is the spandex you are using?
    And thinking of logical progression... is spandex downproof?

    --
    Gadget
    Shouldn't need to be down proof since the spandex is only attached to the end of the UQ, and does not actually hold any down.
    Just your average kayak-paddlin', fish-stalkin', gun-totin', hammock-hangin' Critical Care Paramedic

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Kayak_Medic View Post
    Shouldn't need to be down proof since the spandex is only attached to the end of the UQ, and does not actually hold any down.
    I was thinking of the logical progression...

    --
    Gadget

  3. #23
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    Location
    Tampa, FL
    Hammock
    Chameleon Hexon 1.6
    Tarp
    KC Cat Tangle 12
    Insulation
    LLG CR, Wooki
    Suspension
    Whoopie & shackle
    Posts
    743
    Quote Originally Posted by hutzelbein View Post
    The Wooki has shown that it is completely sufficient to have only a short elastic element - in this case a short rubber band on the foot end. This saves quite a bit of weight.
    I've always been under the impression that the Wooki elastic is a "mechanical fuse" rather than a point of stretch to improve fit; the easily-replaced elastic will fall (tear) intentionally before the fabric does.

    This sounda like an idea worth a look. Without putting to much thought into it, I think you would want more stretchiness in the center (parallel to the ridgeline) than in the sides, to give you a taco shape under load. Maybe strips of Spandex with different "spring rates"--higher at the sides, lower along the center. Spandex probably isn't sold that way; thicker or thinner material might give you more or less stretch... as might layering a given fabric.

  4. #24
    hutzelbein's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Germany
    Hammock
    WBBB SL 1.7
    Tarp
    WB Mamajamba
    Insulation
    WB 0 Wooki +3oz
    Suspension
    Beetle Buckles
    Posts
    3,712
    Images
    99
    Quote Originally Posted by Otter1 View Post
    Questions:

    1) Why is diagonal required?
    The diagonal is only required if the quilt is narrower than the area you're occupying when you lie in the hammock. With a "normal" underquilt, the quilt has to follow your lay direction. This is possible, because most underquilts are suspended by a shock cord that only goes around the long edges. When you lie in the hammock, you have to push the quilt into a diagonal direction. This has two drawbacks: it puts pressure on your body (mostly head and feet) and the seal is not as good as it could / should be. With my standard underquilts I always had problems using them below ~60F (the lower, the more problems) because I started feeling even small gaps. So I tightened the suspension, to get a better seal. This in turn put more pressure on me, because naturally, the underquilt had to be pushed harder into a diagonal lay.

    Only when I got the Wooki I really noticed how much more inline my lay was due to the underquilt. I have been able to lie more diagonal (without any pressure) since then.

    Quote Originally Posted by Otter1 View Post
    2) Why is the width so critical?

    4) What went wrong in your experiments?
    I'll answer these together because it's the same problem. It already takes some force to push the underquilt diagonal when it's suspended by one shock cord. With the clew it became even more difficult to push the underquilt into the desired position. And the better I needed the seal to be, the tighter the suspension had to be and the more difficult it became to bend it. The only quilt I was able to get the clew to work with was a 60" wide monster underquilt, because this was wide enough so that it didn't need to turn diagonally. With the narrower underquilts, my head and feet would simply slip beyond the underquilt and the underquilt would snap back inline.

    I hope I explained this understandably.

  5. #25
    hutzelbein's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Germany
    Hammock
    WBBB SL 1.7
    Tarp
    WB Mamajamba
    Insulation
    WB 0 Wooki +3oz
    Suspension
    Beetle Buckles
    Posts
    3,712
    Images
    99
    Quote Originally Posted by BillyBob58 View Post
    Re: your comment above about no need for an elastic fabric carrier: I wonder if any of this relates at all to an UQ I have recently been trying out, and one that seems to be working quite well- and after the very 1st attachment and without tensioning enough to raise the unoccupied hammock? It does have a triangle, but not spandex(too bad). They describe it as "the unique stretch tech pattern contours perfectly to your back". There is an elastic strap attached to the tip of the fabric triangle(which I think actually has a small amount of down in it), plus elastics in each side which seems to snug the sides up nicely and keep the quilts long edges straight, and actually cause it too hug the occupant(hugs are nice! ) but I don't know what all is involved with that side part.

    I'm wondering if that triangle and single elastic strap is using any of the principles described here? Or not really?
    I don't know the underquilt in your picture; it looks like a different design compared to the underquilts I own.

    They way I see it, the reasons to use an elastic element for suspending an underquilt are:

    • as a predetermined breaking point - it's cheaper and easier to replace a shock cord than repair a ripped underquilt.
    • to even out differences between the hammock length and the underquilt length.
    • to be able to change the direction of the underquilt (to some degree).

    If the underquilt is made with a strong fabric that can hold you without ripping, and if you don't need the underquilt to bend, you don't need any elastic element, since you could lie pretty much directly on the underquilt - like a warm hammock. An underquilt that is designed so that it does not have to change direction (like the Wooki), doesn't need a lot of flexibility. The rubber band is only used to make up for small differences in hammock length and as a predetermined breaking point.

  6. #26
    hutzelbein's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Germany
    Hammock
    WBBB SL 1.7
    Tarp
    WB Mamajamba
    Insulation
    WB 0 Wooki +3oz
    Suspension
    Beetle Buckles
    Posts
    3,712
    Images
    99
    Quote Originally Posted by leiavoia View Post
    In the case of the Wooki, Warbonnet has the luxury of marketing that specific product for their specific hammocks. That doesn't mean that a Wookie can't be used on other hammocks. However, having full-length elastic, even just a little bit, means that i can take my 9' spandex quilt and put it on my 10' WBBB just as well as my 14' Brazilian without changing the quilt.
    I have been using my Wookis with all of my hammocks, ranging from 10' up to 14' in length. I didn't need to change the quilt - I just added some polyester cord to the ends. I think I will post my mod with pictures in a new thread, to make people aware that the Wooki is not as inflexible as Warbonnet suggests. Actually, I think it can be used almost like a "normal" underquilt, although it's easier to fit it to a hammock that is longer than the Wooki. The only negative I have found so far is, that the direction of the lay is fixed. Your wide underquilt would be the better solution if the user flipflops.

    Quote Originally Posted by leiavoia View Post
    Finally, I'm approaching this entire topic more from the point of view of modifying an existing quilt rather than scratch-building something. If i were doing it from scratch again, i would take a different approach than if i were converting a sleeping bag, for example.
    I get that, and I think it's not a bad approach - but I think anybody who is willing to put time and money into this modification should be aware, that it doesn't work well if the underquilt is (too) narrow. It would be a bad idea to e.g. modify a Hammock Gear Incubator. If you want to mod a Costco blanket and don't mind the extra weight of the spandex, it's a good option.

    Quote Originally Posted by leiavoia View Post
    In the end, all of this just helps populate the intellectual ecosystem which future generations can mine for ideas.
    Sure, I only wanted to point out the problem areas. I'm still hoping for an idea that helps me mod my Incubator to get a better fit - so keep experimenting and posting

  7. #27
    hutzelbein's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Germany
    Hammock
    WBBB SL 1.7
    Tarp
    WB Mamajamba
    Insulation
    WB 0 Wooki +3oz
    Suspension
    Beetle Buckles
    Posts
    3,712
    Images
    99
    Quote Originally Posted by DeltaNu1142 View Post
    I've always been under the impression that the Wooki elastic is a "mechanical fuse" rather than a point of stretch to improve fit; the easily-replaced elastic will fall (tear) intentionally before the fabric does.
    No, there is no need for any elastic to improve the fit. The Wooki is basically an insulated hammock, but without the carrying capacity. It has the exact same form as any normal gathered end hammock so it will fit like a glove. The rubber band only protects the quilt from being overstretched. Even Blackbird hammocks vary in length slightly, and different users stretch the hammock fabric more or less, depending on their weight. And in case you accidentally sit down in the Wooki, the rubber band rips before the fabric does.

  8. #28
    Senior Member BillyBob58's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Tupelo, MS
    Posts
    10,161
    Images
    420
    Quote Originally Posted by hutzelbein View Post
    The diagonal is only required if the quilt is narrower than the area you're occupying when you lie in the hammock. With a "normal" underquilt, the quilt has to follow your lay direction. This is possible, because most underquilts are suspended by a shock cord that only goes around the long edges. When you lie in the hammock, you have to push the quilt into a diagonal direction. This has two drawbacks: it puts pressure on your body (mostly head and feet) and the seal is not as good as it could / should be. With my standard underquilts I always had problems using them below ~60F (the lower, the more problems) because I started feeling even small gaps. So I tightened the suspension, to get a better seal. This in turn put more pressure on me, because naturally, the underquilt had to be pushed harder into a diagonal lay.

    Only when I got the Wooki I really noticed how much more inline my lay was due to the underquilt. I have been able to lie more diagonal (without any pressure) since then.



    I'll answer these together because it's the same problem. It already takes some force to push the underquilt diagonal when it's suspended by one shock cord. With the clew it became even more difficult to push the underquilt into the desired position. And the better I needed the seal to be, the tighter the suspension had to be and the more difficult it became to bend it. The only quilt I was able to get the clew to work with was a 60" wide monster underquilt, because this was wide enough so that it didn't need to turn diagonally. With the narrower underquilts, my head and feet would simply slip beyond the underquilt and the underquilt would snap back inline.

    I hope I explained this understandably.
    I also was not getting why you felt the width was so important. But that seems a very logical explanation. In the quilt I asked you about, a ~ 45" wide(and tapered) Sierra Madre Research, which has a single elastic strap on the end of a fabric triangle each end(in addition to some side elastics of some type), I have noticed a tendency for exactly what you describe. Although, it is still new to me and I am still experimenting with how to use it, so that might be a factor. In fact, based on what has worked with previous UQs, I may have had t too tight per the manufacturers directions. This quilt has toggles meant to fit D rings on the hammock of the same brand, so this would be a non-issue when used together. In my case, when using with my HH's side tie outs, which are an approximate fit, it stays nicely in place. With my narrow Claytor and wide Wilderness Logics, there are no tie outs on the hammocks, but by attaching a single piece of thin elastic cord from a loop near the right foot of the quilt to the hammock suspension, that seems to have done the trick easily enough. I may add some toggles or tie outs to these hammocks to use with this quilt.

    But I do see this tendency related to width. I think it has been an issue with other quilts, but I can see it may indeed be potentially more of a problem than it is with the more traditional suspension.

  9. #29
    Member
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Location
    Northern Utah
    Hammock
    SLD Trail Lair 1.1 Dual Layer
    Tarp
    3F UL Gear
    Insulation
    Gemini System
    Suspension
    Whoopie slings
    Posts
    58
    I built two Gemini systems. Mine has the elastic clews and my son's I built with 4 way stretch spandex fabric. The elastic clews work great, but boy do they love to get tangled! The spandex fabric also works very well, but it is heavy and bulky. I want to try the stretch mesh-I think it could could solve the problems of both of the other options. I better talk to my mom and see if she's up to helping me out with another sewing project...

  10. #30
    Senior Member BillyBob58's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Tupelo, MS
    Posts
    10,161
    Images
    420
    Quote Originally Posted by hutzelbein View Post
    The diagonal is only required if the quilt is narrower than the area you're occupying when you lie in the hammock. With a "normal" underquilt, the quilt has to follow your lay direction. This is possible, because most underquilts are suspended by a shock cord that only goes around the long edges. When you lie in the hammock, you have to push the quilt into a diagonal direction. This has two drawbacks: it puts pressure on your body (mostly head and feet) and the seal is not as good as it could / should be. With my standard underquilts I always had problems using them below ~60F (the lower, the more problems) because I started feeling even small gaps. So I tightened the suspension, to get a better seal. This in turn put more pressure on me, because naturally, the underquilt had to be pushed harder into a diagonal lay.

    Only when I got the Wooki I really noticed how much more inline my lay was due to the underquilt. I have been able to lie more diagonal (without any pressure) since then.



    I'll answer these together because it's the same problem. It already takes some force to push the underquilt diagonal when it's suspended by one shock cord. With the clew it became even more difficult to push the underquilt into the desired position. And the better I needed the seal to be, the tighter the suspension had to be and the more difficult it became to bend it. The only quilt I was able to get the clew to work with was a 60" wide monster underquilt, because this was wide enough so that it didn't need to turn diagonally. With the narrower underquilts, my head and feet would simply slip beyond the underquilt and the underquilt would snap back inline.

    I hope I explained this understandably.
    Quote Originally Posted by BillyBob58 View Post
    I also was not getting why you felt the width was so important. But that seems a very logical explanation. In the quilt I asked you about, a ~ 45" wide(and tapered) Sierra Madre Research, which has a single elastic strap on the end of a fabric triangle each end(in addition to some side elastics of some type), I have noticed a tendency for exactly what you describe. Although, it is still new to me and I am still experimenting with how to use it, so that might be a factor. In fact, based on what has worked with previous UQs, I may have had t too tight per the manufacturers directions. This quilt has toggles meant to fit D rings on the hammock of the same brand, so this would be a non-issue when used together. In my case, when using with my HH's side tie outs, which are an approximate fit, it stays nicely in place. With my narrow Claytor and wide Wilderness Logics, there are no tie outs on the hammocks, but by attaching a single piece of thin elastic cord from a loop near the right foot of the quilt to the hammock suspension, that seems to have done the trick easily enough. I may add some toggles or tie outs to these hammocks to use with this quilt.

    But I do see this tendency related to width. I think it has been an issue with other quilts, but I can see it may indeed be potentially more of a problem than it is with the more traditional suspension.
    You know, as I think more about that I think maybe I am still not seeing why this spandex or CLEW either one would be more of a problem except with a wide hammock. I can see why maybe an UQ not wide enough would be a problem, but not this spandex suspension? I must be missing something.

    I see that there can be a "snap back towards the middle, and away from diagonal" problem, and I have experienced this with more than one UQ/hammock combo, I'm not really sure why it would be more of a problem with a spandex to single point connection( or CLEW )? Because don't they all end up being a single point connection on the middle of the hammock suspension? All tapering down from a triangle to a point?

    For ex, with my JRB MWs. the suspension supplied from JRB connects at 1 point on each corner of the qult( so 2 points) and the connects at 1 point on the suspension, forming a triangle with the wider part on the quilt, the narrow part on the hammock suspension a foot or 2 closer to the trees. Of course, the wide point is widest when occupied, with my feet forcing some separation of LT from RT on the foot end. (obviously not talking about bridge H., only non-bridge)

    Same with my Yeti, the side channel suspension cords leave the quilt at about upper thigh area, and at the width of my thighs, and then narrow down in triangle shape to a single point on the suspension.

    The only difference I can see is that in the case of the Spandex, instead of only being attached and pulling at each corner(JRB) or along a side channel lifting up the quilt(not really pulling anywhere) but also exiting the quilt at each corner, both narrowing down to single point, the Spandex will apply tension about equally at each corner and all points in between. Is there some other difference I am missing? Or is the application pf tension equally along the entire width of the UQ- rather than just at each corner, a problem? Or is it a matter of the Spandex not being strong enough compared to the traditional shockcord? What am I missing?

    Sorry if it is something really obvious, I stopped doing my taxes to send this off when the thought popped into my head. (I needed some excuse I guess) Thanks in advance for you help!

  • + New Posts
  • Page 3 of 5 FirstFirst 12345 LastLast

    Similar Threads

    1. spandex footbox?
      By norman60546 in forum Do-It-Yourself (DIY)
      Replies: 6
      Last Post: 07-14-2015, 08:18
    2. Question on using fleece + spandex to make a SPE?
      By alexpotato in forum Do-It-Yourself (DIY)
      Replies: 5
      Last Post: 12-11-2014, 11:00
    3. Replies: 0
      Last Post: 11-16-2014, 18:13
    4. Whoo! My 20*F is Perfect!
      By Hangandy in forum Hammock Gear
      Replies: 8
      Last Post: 01-19-2012, 21:42
    5. Oh my! Near Perfect!
      By Tobit in forum Warbonnet Hammocks
      Replies: 5
      Last Post: 01-13-2011, 22:34

    Tags for this Thread

    Bookmarks

    Posting Permissions

    • You may not post new threads
    • You may not post replies
    • You may not post attachments
    • You may not edit your posts
    •