Couldn't Dial It In...

**SteveE** · 03-01-2018, 15:53

I'm looking for some help as I struggled to dial in my new 0º Zeppelin underquilt. I just got it before going up north on a trip so I didn't get a chance to play with it at home before the trip (I did bring back-up gear in the event it was a total failure). So the temps go down to about 17F overnight. My new quilt felt great when I first got in and I could instantly feel it warm up. However in the middle of the night I woke up to cold spots on my butt and shoulder (I'm a side sleeper). Each night I tweaked something different hoping to dial it in (and I've read many threads here and watched videos like Shugs). Here's what I did:

-Tried tightening the primary suspension to lift it up (this helped a bit, especially around the shoulders)
-Tried tightening and loosening the secondary suspension (neither seemed to make a difference)
-Attached shock cord from each side of the quilt to prussik knots on the ridge line to snug it up (this helped a bit but made it almost impossible to get that nice diagonal lie)
-Checked to ensure end baffles were not too tight. I got in it and my dad checked to ensure there were no gaps.
-I even got up at 3am one night out of frustration and stuck a winter Thermarest in between my double layer hammock...that was brutal and did not work well at all as it kept sliding around and stuff.

My thought is that it might actually be an issue with the way I hung my hammock (hung it hastily in the rain). I noticed there was a pronounced calf ridge that I hadn't noticed when I set up the hammock at home. This ridge created a channel where cold air collected right up to my butt (I could feel between the hammock and the quilt). Nothing I did would snug the quilt up to the hammock bottom. I was also only about 4 inches off the snow covered ground as the trees were about 17 feet apart and the tree straps were as high as I could get them (about 7 feet). In order to get my ridgeline not super tight I was down to about 4 inches off the ground.

So a couple questions:

1. Were the trees too far apart (17 feet) in order to get that 30º hang angle?
2. Was my butt only being 4 inches off the snow covered ground an issue?
3. Do most folks use their hammock tie outs with a quilt? I tried both (made it easier to find the hammock in the dark and not sit into the quilt, but also felt as though it pulled the hammock and quilt away from my body)
4. What does it do to the lay of a hammock if the ridge line is not loose enough to make that nice "z" shape when you get into it (i.e. tight ridge line).
5. Is it normal to get that channel of cold air along that calf ridge?

Thanks in advance. I really want to make this work but I was getting very frustrated after 4 fairly restless sleeps and trying everything I could...
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**Shug** · 03-01-2018, 16:31

Looks to me that your primary suspension could be tighter......tighten it even more and see if that helps.
Yes, try to get more than 4" from that snow. Shovel it out if needed.
Keep at it.
Shug

**SteveE** · 03-01-2018, 16:38

Wow even tighter eh? I really reefed on it and was nervous to keep reefing...but I'll give that a shot for sure!

**Grumpy Squatch** · 03-01-2018, 17:37

I often failed to tighten my primary suspension when I first started, and experienced the same kind of thing you did. An air gap formed around my butt during the night. A couple people pointed out that if you get into your hammock and there is still stretch in the primary quilt shock cord, it's not too tight. So that is the absolute limit. If the bungees stop stretching when you get in (and break if you're heavy so be careful) you've reached the limit. But anything less than that is fair game when you're trying to get it to fit.

Most people say that the primary suspension should be tight enough that with nothing in the hammock, the quilt should lift the hammock up significantly. I happen to have my hammock set up in my basement with a 20° Loco Libre quilt on it and I took a couple quick pics to show that point. Notice the height of the hammock (based on the milk crate/storage boxes in the background) with the quilt on and off.

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Also, I know many people warn about causing leaks if the end baffles are too tight, but I've rarely found that to be an issue. It's much more common to be too loose in my experience and that could definitely cause cold air to pool.

I am also a side sleeper. As you mentioned, the secondary suspension didn't do much to overcome the problems of cold air leakage. But it certainly helps adjust the quilt so that is stays in place better and supports an asym lay. Getting the secondary right certainly helps keep the quilt up around my shoulder and around my feet as I roll around.

One final thing ... if you indeed had onlt a few inches above the snow that can be a problem. Moving to your side sometimes causes the hammock to hang differently and possibly lower. It might have hit the snow enough to compress the down. One of my worst nights happened because I set up my hammock and quilts, was convinced everything was great, then slipped my pack under my quilt when I went to bed. That was enough to cause the quilt to touch my pack and compress the down in a spot or two and I just couldn't get warm. As I felt around in the dark sometime around 3 AM I realized this, pulled my pack out, and quickly warmed back up with no cold spots. It doesn't take much to cause a cold spot.

Good luck.

**TrailSlug** · 03-01-2018, 20:35

What is the length of your hammock? It looks a little short in that under quilt which looks like it needs the primary suspension tightened quite a bit. This "messing" with under quilts is the exact reason I switched to a Warbonnet Ridgerunner. The under quilt clips on to four corners and there's no adjustments.

**SteveE** · 03-01-2018, 20:54

It's an 11 foot Dream Hammock. The quilt is a long and wide version (83" long) which is maybe why it looks that way?

**bkrgi** · 03-02-2018, 01:27

I find I have too make sure the hammock is stretched a little tighter/flatter. If not your butt pushes the hammock down creating this slight empty space up the side beside your legs that stays slightly cooler than everything else. That cool is just enough to make you cold.
At -12c I just stack in my 20* UQ to completely solve any issues of air gaps as at them temps it takes very little to make a cold spot. Again too this goes with the 10*f buffer as well. Don't push the 0* quilt to 0* but stack in a buffer by 10-15*f
Now for side sleeping I find it even harder to not create these voids and my butt can be really hard to keep warm below 20f so I revert to my back or toss in the 20* UQ....
All I can say is backyard test like mad and try stringing the Hammock tighter.....but cold temps there may be over for you.

**SteveE** · 03-02-2018, 09:07

Originally Posted by bkrgi

I find I have too make sure the hammock is stretched a little tighter/flatter. If not your butt pushes the hammock down creating this slight empty space up the side beside your legs that stays slightly cooler than everything else. That cool is just enough to make you cold.
At -12c I just stack in my 20* UQ to completely solve any issues of air gaps as at them temps it takes very little to make a cold spot. Again too this goes with the 10*f buffer as well. Don't push the 0* quilt to 0* but stack in a buffer by 10-15*f
Now for side sleeping I find it even harder to not create these voids and my butt can be really hard to keep warm below 20f so I revert to my back or toss in the 20* UQ....
All I can say is backyard test like mad and try stringing the Hammock tighter.....but cold temps there may be over for you.

Thanks, I'll try experimenting a bit with a flatter lay to see if that helps. Unfortunately another quilt isn't an option for now so I'll have to make this work!

**GregfromHolland** · 03-02-2018, 09:36

Having the same problem regarding cold legs due to airgap between hammock and underquilt.
How does one get rid of the gap?
I tried laying more diagonal, less diagonal, scooted myself more to the foot end, to the head end, nothing worked to get rid of that gap.
(sleeping in an 11ft hammock)

Thanks in advance. Hope to find a solution.

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**Tyroler Holzhacker** · 03-02-2018, 09:54

I'm not sure if this will work as i haven't tested it myself yet, but since you have a DL sparrow, you could augment your 0 degree Zeppelin with a piece of thin evazote CCF cut to fit between the layers. This may cost less than another quilt to stack with your current rig, and is easy to pack and fairly light weight. Backyard practice is the best advice before going into the frozen wilds.