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  1. #11
    OlTrailDog's Avatar
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    However, the key feature of the butterfly is that it is meant to be tied in the middle, not necessarily the center, of a length of cordage/rope.

    It would take a bowline on a bight to accomplish the same principle, i.e. two strands and the resulting knot is not near as tidy. So I don't think it is as practical or as useful, especially if you finished it of with an half hitch or overhand which is commonly used for the tail end of a bowline as an added safety measure.

  2. #12
    Senior Member WV's Avatar
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    Continued use over a long period of time can make any knot difficult to untie and may degrade it in ways that aren't obvious at first. That's my conclusion after examining some alpine butterfly knots that I'd been hanging from for a year. I've stopped using them for hammock suspensions, but they're very useful for other things.

  3. #13
    Phantom Grappler's Avatar
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    Alpine Butterfly Question

    Until my 1/8 breaks, I'm gonna keep using alpine butterfly loops. I've never heard or read on Hammock Forums about any 1/8 amsteel breaking at knots or anywhere, in "normal" hammock use? Has anyone had 1/8 amsteel break while hammocking?
    Has anyone's 7/64 amsteel break while hammocking, using knots such as diamond knots,larks head, alpine butterfly loops. Also did any ones 7/64 break while using speed hooks and similar bling?
    Old Phantom Knot arguing, just need help with memory--to use everyone's memory and help me think?
    Phantom think?? Ha ha ha happy Halloween.


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    Last edited by Phantom Grappler; 10-29-2017 at 19:50.

  4. #14
    Phantom Grappler's Avatar
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    Alpine Butterfly Question

    I defer to Yalls knowledge and information from rope manufacturers; and to combined wisdom of Hammock Forums members.
    I use about ten favorite knots and know about twenty knots. After that--I use a knot app-Grogg Knots and Ashley's ABOK and a real good book with photos and step by step directions by Geoffrey Budworth, Encyclopedia of Knots.
    I don't mean to Bogard anyone and just share what I "know" from my limited experience--and might be subject to change.
    Good luck Hammock friends--whether you use knots, splices and or bling.


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    Last edited by Phantom Grappler; 10-29-2017 at 19:09.

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by OlTrailDog View Post
    However, the key feature of the butterfly is that it is meant to be tied in the middle, not necessarily the center, of a length of cordage/rope.

    It would take a bowline on a bight to accomplish the same principle, i.e. two strands and the resulting knot is not near as tidy. So I don't think it is as practical or as useful, especially if you finished it of with an half hitch or overhand which is commonly used for the tail end of a bowline as an added safety measure.
    I was speaking more to the op's situation trying to create a loop at the end of his hh, and assuming the stock cord would be cut short and a loop made in the end of it...Agreed that the butterfly is preferred for making a loop in the middle of a long line. As for the bowline, i never tie a backup behind it....doing a double bowline (2 loops) would be more secure than adding a half hitch to a single bowline, however i dare say a single bowline in 7/64 amsteel would not slip under any normal hammock load...if its well dressed no need for any half hitch behind it.

  6. #16
    OlTrailDog's Avatar
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    Completely agree a bowline is an exceptionally useful knot. It is often my go to knot for attaching cordage to tarp or tent tabs and many other uses. My point is the chief purpose of a butterfly is a loop mid-way versus at the end of the rope or cordage. Different knots for different purposes. It wasn't clear to me where exactly on the suspension the op was wanting to place the loop. At the end, a bowline. Mid-way, perhaps a butterfly. I assumed since he was thinking about a butterfly it was some where other than the end of the rope, not the place where I would chose to implement a butterfly, and a bowline would indeed be more appropriate.

  7. #17
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    I'll have to look into the bowline. My intent for right now is something I can use to tie a loop in the middle of the stock rope on my Hennessy. I don't want to cut the rope short at this point, just because I'm experimenting with various options (including just using the figure 8 lash recommended by HH).

    I did a short test hang this weekend to try out a couple of options. At one end of the hammock I used a figure-8 on a bight to create the loop, and at the other end I used the butterfly. I used biners to attach both ends to the ENO Atlas straps. I wasn't able to get an overnight hang in, but I was out for at least a couple of hours. Even after that short amount of time, the figure-8 was _extremely_ difficult to untie, while the butterfly came apart pretty easily. I should be able to get an overnight hang in this weekend - I'll use the butterflys for that and see how it goes.

    Thanks all for the suggestions and thoughts!

  8. #18
    Senior Member R3l@x's Avatar
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    Here's another option you might want to look at using your current suspension and straps https://theultimatehang.com/2016/04/...-becket-hitch/
    --
    John

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by R3l@x View Post
    Here's another option you might want to look at using your current suspension and straps https://theultimatehang.com/2016/04/...-becket-hitch/
    OK, this looks like a really promising option that I hadn't considered. If I tie this directly onto the straps, I don't need biners or a semi-permanent loop.

    Will this hitch hold fast while there's no load in the hammock? Under load it looks like it will tighten against itself, but unloaded could it 'wriggle' loose? I'm pretty fond of this idea and will give it a shot. Thanks!

  10. #20
    Senior Member R3l@x's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cmyoung19 View Post
    OK, this looks like a really promising option that I hadn't considered. If I tie this directly onto the straps, I don't need biners or a semi-permanent loop.

    Will this hitch hold fast while there's no load in the hammock? Under load it looks like it will tighten against itself, but unloaded could it 'wriggle' loose? I'm pretty fond of this idea and will give it a shot. Thanks!
    If your worried about slipping you can do a second loop around the loop before doing the slippery hitch.This might help with no load slipping but with the rope & straps your using I don't think you'll see that problem. Test and let us know how it works out.
    --
    John

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