Cuben fiber tarp with or without doors?

[_YEM_]

I know, I know.....this topic has been discussed ad nauseam. However, I have a few personal details that add a bit to the decision.

I'm planning on buying a Cuben fiber tarp during the black Friday sales. All of my gear (hammock, bug net, tarp, quilts) is DIY. My current tarp is a 12' Xenon Sil .9 with doors and 4 pull outs that weighs in at 14oz, not including guy lines and tensioners. This was my first experience with hammock camping, so with the mindset of tent camping I felt I wanted the most 360 degree coverage possible (hence the doors). After about 10 trips I'm realizing that I only deploy the tarp about 1/3 of the time, if that (it's glorious having nothing between you and the trees). Even when it has rained, I've left the tarp in porch mode and tied up the other side to trees and remained completely dry. Obviously site location is important, as all of my sites have been in hallows/depressions blocking the wind.

Long story short, I have a Winter/foul weather tarp that I can use if I know the trip is calling for it. Obviously it weighs a bit more, but base weight is expected to increase in the Winter so my trips won't be nearly as long in length.

This brings me to my Cuben fiber decision. If I get the Cuben tarp with doors I'm looking at 7.87oz. Thus, the cuben tarp is only a 6.13oz advantage over my current tarp that cost $240 less. However, if I go with Cuben sans doors, I'm looking at 5.5oz or a 8.5oz advantage, which I feel is much more significant difference. I never thought I'd be the backpacker who considered 2.4oz "significant" but 'm currently at a 12lb baseweight and trying to get down to 10lbs, so this would really help. One additional factor is that I will eventually be doing some long distance thru hikes (Long Trail, John Muir trail) and I want this tarp to be my shelter system. In the event that I have to go to the ground (JMT in mind), I want to be able to set this up with trekking poles. I know it's possible to setup on the ground with the non-door tarp, but the tarp with doors would obviously provide much more protection. See links below.

With all those details in mind, which Cuben tarp would you suggest?

Ground setup doors: http://www.zpacks.com/images/shelter/common/hooks_l.jpg
No doors: http://www.zpacks.com/images/shelter.../uri_7_9_l.jpg

Current Tarp:
https://hammockforums.net/forum/atta...9&d=1500654111
https://hammockforums.net/forum/atta...4&d=1500654149

[<-Pointer]

If you are going to be out on extended hikes then I think you either need the doors or a DWR sock or something similar to protect from blowing rains. Be honest with yourself about the usage though because CF ain't cheap. If you're a week-end hanger that only goes out in decent weather then it's a different discussion: if the forecast calls for storms you're probably not going to go out in it in the first place. I don't see a particular issue going to ground in a tarp without doors: I doubt that the angles will work if you're using trekking poles so it's probably going to be the issues regardless. Unless the rain is blowing hard and the wind is shifting you should be able to stay pretty dry either way.

[TrailSlug]

If I'm spending this much money I'm personally going to get doors as the weight is negligible but per your post it sounds like you are covered by already having a winter tarp with doors so go door-less.

[_YEM_]

If I'm spending this much money I'm personally going to get doors as the weight is negligible but per your post it sounds like you are covered by already having a winter tarp with doors so go door-less.

You just had me on an emotional roller coaster with your post. "Get the doors!" "Don't get the doors since you already have a tarp with doors!"

The thing is, the difference in weight between doors and no doors is not negligible. If you think in percentages, the tarp with doors is a 42% increase in weight over the tarp without doors. That's significant.

<-Pointer, That's an excellent point about long distances hikes. On my 4 day trips, if the weather is brutal I just choose to wait until another weekend where it may rain only 1 day. However, if I'm hiking 20 days in a row that isn't an option. That being said, if it's a relentless storm I would pick a place to camp that would protect me.

I feel like the times this would happen is minimal though (sideways rain). Worst case scenario, I put my rain jacket and/or rain kilt on the end to block the side the rain is coming in.

Clearly I'm talking myself into the non-door tarp....

[sqidmark]

I'm a doors-all-the-time person so...

Will you beat yourself up if you're out on a long trail and getting wet wishing you had gotten the doors? How important will those couple of ounces be to you then? If you carry a uqp then you're simply substituting one for the other. Will skipping the doors make any difference in the pack you'll carry? i.e. smaller and lighter.

I get the whole UL ideal, but I've yet to find myself wishing I didn't have doors. In fairness, I've not done long hikes though. All three of my tarps (including CF) have doors, even if it's only wind protection for those cooler nights. When I want/need them they're there so the weight penalty is worth it to me.

Just this past weekend my wife and I were car camping with a group. We'd turn in before most of the others and the one end of our tarp was directly facing the campfire, closing the doors at that end was a welcome option (brown xenon). We also had a fair amount of rain. Yes I know, big difference between car camping and long trail backpacking.

[Foxpoop]

Just to make your decision even more fun...
Hammock Gear will make their cuben tarps with doors on one end only if you ask. I have one in this configuration and I use it more than my other tarps. It is a very versatile setup.
However, if you are set on the Black Friday sale, you won't get the discount because it is a custom item.

[obxcola]

Not sure you've linked to the correct images:

Ground setup doors: http://www.zpacks.com/images/shelter/common/hooks_l.jpg
No doors: http://www.zpacks.com/images/shelter.../uri_7_9_l.jpg

The first seems to be an image of the tri-plex shelter. The giveaway is the mid-door closure. Also a little curious how the doors would close on the ground with the door model hammock tarp. In all the photos they are cut so that they tilt inward from the 90 perpendicular which would work better to protect a hanging hammock but it seems to me that they might not meet with the tarp pitched on the ground and the doors at 90 degrees to the ridge-line.

Z-packs sells little 3 x 3 cuben glue-packed patches with various connectors that I've used and they work great! Almost like they bond to the cuben , so it'd be easy to rig a mid-door latch; that is if the doors meet.

Not sure where you got the second picture. Can't even find that via google images. IT IS NOT a Z-packs hammock tarp.

Anyway that's not what is currently shown on the Z-packs site. I've been looking at them as well and struggling with the same question. Also the tarp with doors is 9 oz. and no doors is 7 oz.

Lots of tie-out options with the door model. (18 total)

I hadn't thought about the privacy option pointed out above. Does seem like a lot of extra options at a 2 oz. extra.

Wonder if anyone out there has pitched the model with doors on the ground?

[_YEM_]

Not sure you've linked to the correct images:

Ground setup doors: http://www.zpacks.com/images/shelter/common/hooks_l.jpg
No doors: http://www.zpacks.com/images/shelter.../uri_7_9_l.jpg

The first seems to be an image of the tri-plex shelter. The giveaway is the mid-door closure.
Not sure where you got the second picture. Can't even find that via google images. IT IS NOT a Z-packs hammock tarp.

Anyway that's not what is currently shown on the Z-packs site. I've been looking at them as well and struggling with the same question. Also the tarp with doors is 9 oz. and no doors is 7 oz.

The picture of the tarp with doors was just an "example" of how they would come together. Not perfect. It's something I'd need to fiddle with to get it correct.
The 2nd picture is just the stock photo on the Z Packs tarp page.

Not to be even more confusing, but my weights were for Hammock Gear tarps, not Z Packs.

[TrailSlug]

Yea you're kinda asking us to help you decide but it sounds like you have your mind made up so I'm not sure what to suggest. All I know is if the weight of the doors on a cuben fiber tarp concern you then you shouldn't get doors. I personally would pee before I left and the added weight would balance out

[_YEM_]

Yea you're kinda asking us to help you decide but it sounds like you have your mind made up so I'm not sure what to suggest. All I know is if the weight of the doors on a cuben fiber tarp concern you then you shouldn't get doors. I personally would pee before I left and the added weight would balance out

I'm leaning toward hex, but really just asking advice for a significant reason to go with doors. Most people are saying "I prefer to take something along into the woods vs. not have it when I need it". However, I haven't heard many people say that doors were essential to keeping them dry/the wind out. I'm also looking at this as a weight reduction/price ratio. As I mentioned, the weight difference between the hex and doors is not negligible, it's a 42% increase. Isn't weight the whole reason for going with Cuben? (rhetorical question )

I appreciate everyone's feedback though, thank you. It's extremely helpful to think this through.