For the fence setters: If you want a floating cot with plenty of length and width, and with zero pressure points, get off the fence! Oh, it's also very easy to hang, uses UQs and can be sealed off from pesky bugs. Plus the 1.7 hybrid is oh so soft and comfy and Bill offers incredible customer service. Did I forget anything?
But for the grace of God, there, I go...
I'm about 12 nights in on my Happy Medium in 1.7 Robic using carbon fiber trekking poles as the spreader bars, and all I can say is wow! I fell in love with the medium and have creations of it in Hyoer D and Robic 1.2 as well, but this current model is by far my favorite! 23.5oz is a nice weight for the comfort this gives!
Hammock Tourist / Hammock Fiend / Hammock Therapist
Hi mr bill. I would be very interested in trying out testing etc the mountain hanger. I’m about 6’6” and 265 and I’ve had 4 back surgeries. I’ve done several diys myself and just can’t get things right so I keep going back to my diy gathered end.
I replied to your other thread and appreciate how hard these are to build right, lol!Originally Posted by bigsig11010
At your size, you wouldn't need the Mountain Hanger prototype. Which will probably be a few months off regardless; I use any new prototype personally for at least 30 days before I send any for testing. (Wrapping up 60 days on an endbar prototype shortly and hope to take those into testing soon. Then trying the Mountain Hanger once those go out) I obtained a new source for a military spec Easton pole and want to verify it will work. If it does... first honors will go to Mountain Hanger himself who inspired the bridge. But he is built like a door slab... for some people this prototype may actually prove to make an acceptable double hammock.
The Big Guy is rated to 350+. Around 350 you may experience the same issue Mountain Hanger did; you fit, it holds you... but there are no options to change position as you fill the whole bridge up. I have a handfull of customers who exceed 350 with a few near 390. Point being... the Big Guy is pretty big, lol.
You also would not be alone with the back issues. I was fortunate enough to avoid surgery with physical therapy and 'retirement' from field carpentry. But there several folks with various medical issues using these bridges, some of them fairly severe actually. I'm certainly not claiming anything beyond building a hammock, but as someone who also lives with chronic pain I've been very pleased to find out that some relief has been found by several folks using these. Back problems and torn shoulders seem the most common injuries reported.
I'd be happy to add you to the list for the next batch of Big Guy's though. I am getting close to wrapping up the backlog list and I'm down to the folks who needed to hold off due to the cost/lack of funds. I'll be circling back to them shortly as I complete this current batch of bridges I'm on. I'll give them one more shot to place the order and then clear the current list and start a new one. I'll probably start a fresh thread on that in the coming weeks.
Shoot me an email to the Just Bill address below and reference your screen name.
For everyone-
I have been working on a spec sheet and a few website edits are slowly trickling in as I find time.
I do have a new one drive folder I've been sharing that puts the general information into a single point. New Bridge Customers
You'll find the videos, instructions, chair trick PDF, and a few odds and ends. As well as several sub-folders showing current color combos, pads, UQ's, etc.
These will eventually work their way to the website but figured I'd keep sewing until I caught up.
Current Pricing-
Big Guy Bridge- $350
Luxury Bridge- $325
Happy Medium- $300 (includes Ruta Locura manufactured Carbon Fiber pole set).
The bridges will all include; Adjustable RL, Cont. Loop for chair trick, a few mitten hooks and prussic loops, integrated pockets and Easton Aluminum poles.
Suspension is sold separately at $12 each with bridge purchase for color matched pairs of (camp nano 22 biners, whoopies, tree huggers)
I do not sell suspension at these prices- this is only with bridge purchase!
The Happy Medium is intended to be a lightweight premium model with all the suspension and design features of the larger bridges in a more compact backpacking package: so they will not include a stuff sack but does get the upgrade to Carbon Fiber Poles standard ($90 retail cost alone). The 1.7 Happy Medium is doing fine at 225lbs and about 16.5 ounces, lighter when paired with the Harmony Trekking poles down the line and with a compact RL distance of about 9'9" these fit under a 10' tarp and work with nearly any UQ model tested.
I will continue to produce (in very limited quantity) some of the Happy Medium in Hybrid 1.2 for users under 160lbs.
These are coming in on par with the original micro bridge so I won't bury them just because they didn't test out to the 200lbs I was hoping for. At 12 or 13 ounces they are impressive for full featured premium bridges, but going forward will only be offered in Coyote and to folks I talk with about the limitations.
Just a Bugnet- $85 ($50 with a bridge purchase.)
This comes in two sizes for now (BG/LUX or Medium).
At this time, this is probably the only products I will offer for sale.
Ordering is via email only. I do not take deposits or custom orders. I build these in batches of 10-12 at a time. When the batch is completed I contact you with available colors and give you the option to complete your purchase. If you pass or want to hold off- I go to the next on the list and you go on the next batches list. Ideally, as I catch up I should have some items in hand and ready to ship. Because this is a part time job for me; I will not take your money or provide a delivery date I may not be able to meet if I have to put in OT at my day job. When it's ready, you pay, you get it in three days. For the most part... this is actually faster than other cottage waiting lists... and it's the only way to do these products. These are already expensive bridges and doing them one at a time would add another $50-$100 to them.
The Big Guy and Happy Medium's currently have a waiting list... I believe I am caught up on the Luxury Model and could ship that relatively fast if anyone is interested.
The Harmony trekking pole set with bridge pole conversion is in testing now as a trekking pole. (fits Happy Medium or foot end of BG/LUX) It passed the bridge pole testing phase and now I'd like to see how those hold up in the real world.
I may offer limited sales to adventurous customers but likely with winter coming up those won't get enough trail days on them until spring.
Just a Bridge- I'm revisiting some of my original end bar bridge designs with current materials and some tricks I learned on the premium bridges. I've tested one model for nearly 60 days, with a few I took to 30. I showed one off at the Chili Hang and the reception was positive. The goal is to introduce some of my geometry and ideas into a simpler package that is more affordable than my premium bridges. It's also to introduce a light bridge at an affordable price for backpackers. I'm hoping to start getting some field testing going in the coming weeks on this model... with maybe a spring time availability. These can also pair with the Harmony pole.
If I can sort out the Hybrid 1.2 version for a 180lb or so rating then it would displace the Micro as the lightest bridge in the world. That model is coming in about 6 ounces for body and RL.
Add CF poles at 5.5 ounces or the Harmony pole kit at 2.25 ounces.
However, if that's a bust... the Hybrid 1.7 version is the one I'm testing at a few ounces more holding my 230 just fine.
Just a Bridge is not as nice as my premium bridges... but rather than 8 hours of labor per bridge they are coming in close to 2 hours each.
So while they are not the best bridges I can build... for many they should be just right for you and your wallet.
Since one major goal is low cost, I'm going to try to do a basic version with material cost in mind and try to keep things at $200 or under with Easton Aluminum poles.
However, end bar bridges do present an opportunity to build even lighter so I can't help myself and will also look to do an UL version using the latest Kevlar and Dyneema based webbings and grosgrains. The original micro bridges used 1/2" grosgrain so when done carefully... there are ways to push things pretty far. This new technique presents an opportunity to do something pretty unique and allows several overlapping products to come together in Harmony.
For Bridge nerds-
These are not rolled webbing end bar bridges. (RR, BMBH, Bic/Hiker Dad style). These use a new technique I recently created with a wider webbing and triple stitch attachment. As a result the stress on the fabric is better distributed and a better geometry can be applied. While they won't get the same dramatic pop of my premium bridges, they do pop more than a basic rolled webbing design and also reduce the 'bite' on the edge.
The main thing to sort out is which webbing pairs best with each fabric to balance durability, weight, and cost.
I'll also be exploring Hexon fabrics more for this model. With the same 8 way gridstop as Hybrid in a non-hybrid version it may lend itself to good performance in this model.
Hybrid 1.7 has some unique advantages in bridges, but in this design Hexon may offer that middle ground on structure, cost and feel that Hyper D cannot provide. While HyperD is a great fabric for gathered end applications and is incredibly silky smooth... it doesn't do well in bridges for general use in my experience and I will not be working with it for that reason.
A few of my Gathered Ends are out and about for testing... but I will probably be staying away from those models for the next 6-12 months.
FKT M-10, Differential Duo, Pad Sling, Agon, 270... all fun but not as fun as bridges... but a few of them are out there if you run into a gathered end based design you've never seen.
So... that's what's going on over here for the coming months.
The new shop is up, Just Bill is catching up... but I still have a day job and two great kids. I don't think my wife left me yet, as someone is feeding the kids... so far so good then at the new place!
Question 1: Can you explain what "pop" means here?
Question 2: How does a Town's End bridge compare to a Bic/HikerDad bridge in terms of size, shape, depth, characteristics, and general "feel"?
Background
I have made myself a Bic/HikerDad in Hexon 1.6. I weigh 175 lbs. It's the only bridge I've ever tried, and I love it. I sleep in it at home most nights. I usually sleep on my back, but I can side-sleep on it if I want. If I have a criticism it's that despite being very comfortable, it feels very firm. I get numb heels in it when sleeping on my back (though nothing like as bad as I do in a GE).
Bridges are fascinating, comfortable and practical. I don't need another one, but I'm super-curious and can happily see myself in a Happy Medium 1.7.
Question 1-
Yar... pictures, thousands of words and what not:
Pop 1.jpg
Pop 2.jpg
There's a Luxury from this weekend's batch... that's at medium tension.
All my Premium bridges (Big Guy, Luxury, or Happy Medium) come with an adjustable RL which allows you to alter the tension of the bridge.
If you like it really firm, are near the edge of the weight limit, or you're sleeping on your belly- you want maximum tension. (You open the ARL up all the way).
If you like it softer, are at the low end of the weight limit, or you're back sleeping- you want the least tension. (You close the ARL all the way.)
Most like it in the middle, especially as many of my customers are rotisserie sleepers who switch positions all night.
As you can see from the photo the center of the bridge 'pops' up.
At maximum tension and average weight the bridge actually inverts even under load (the center is higher than the ends). This is critical to eliminating any negative pressure on your lower back if you are belly sleeping.
Because the ends are adjustable you have roughly 8' of bed length you can work with. So for my customers with bad backs... they can slide up or down in the bridge to position the portion of the bridge that pops up for maximum support. Some of those with shoulder injuries also use the popped up portion directly under their upper torso, so that their shoulder can 'fall' off the highpoint in the middle of the bridge. Though there is a similar support shelf at the end of the bridge under the bar.
For side sleepers/fetal sleepers- this high spot counteracts the concentrated load you put on the center of the bridge when at medium or low tension.
For a person like yerself complaining of numb heels: It also means that with the center of the bridge popped up your butt and torso are supported and you won't feel that your heels or head is holding your weight.
There is actually a small ridge of tension under the foot bar that further carries your weight to support you evenly from bar to bar.
So depending on the tension you put on the adjustable end...
If you crank down on the end it will pick it up and create a bit of a pillow. Some folks like that so there is no pressure at all on the calf muscles.. since some of the big guys have some abnormally big calves.
If you open the end all the way up... you can either 'sleep like Cletus' with your feet hanging off or you will get a small depression your feet can drop into so there is zero pressure.
Again... like most things about the middle of the range works for most people.
Question 2:
It's not too terribly difficult to build a custom bridge for one person that fits their individual quirks. VW's 'Peoples bridge hammock' is an excellent example of applying very specific geometry on one or two points to tune a bridge for an individual. What is very difficult to do is build a bridge that satisfies a wide variety of people... or even a single individual who requires multiple sleep positions. I have not built a Hiker Dad bridge personally. It's not a pattern that appeals to me much, though at first glance when I start showing off my 'Just a Bridge' it might appear very similar since it's an end bar bridge.
Overall; the simplest comparison might be to think of a Hiker Dad/Bic bridge as a generic bridge. It's a great place to start, an improvement for many, and if it works for you... why go further? As a DIY project it is not too bad to tackle and gives you an idea at an affordable cost. Next up would be a Ridgerunner or WV's PBH. Both offer improvements. Either in the form of an affordable bridge you can pickup off Brandon's shelf... or in the next level DIY project that is more tunable to your needs.
From there, the Cadillac of DIY bridges is Grizz's Ariel. Simply recessing the bars shortens the span of the bridge... which results in a flatter bridge compared to an end bar design of equal weight.
I'd like to think my Premium models go one or two steps further. Primarily in center pop and the ability to tune it to your preferences and give you a larger bed space to work with. Even if those preferences change with injury, discomfort, or boredom; you have options.
But the question for you and anyone is: Do you have a problem? If you don't, then you don't need a solution.
There is nothing cheaper, lighter, or simpler than a gathered end hammock. Nor is there anything more expensive and complicated to build than my premium bridges.
So to actually answer your question:
The Bic Bridge and the Big Guy are totally different things in my opinion. Rather than pick on his design (which is in and of itself a huge innovation)... let's pick on mine.
Here's a failure. This is a rolled webbing bridge which at first glance would look like a Bic Bridge.
JAB fail 1.jpg
JAB fail 2.jpg
Here's an attempt at an extremely light bridge. 4.5 ounces for body and suspension... 5.5 ounces for CF poles. (lightest in the world if it had worked)
This is my 120lb wife in it. It's a failure because it is deflecting too much for my standards even at this relatively low occupant weight.
While comfortable, there is a clear banana curve to the bridge... indicating not enough structure and pop in the middle.
You might even see where heel pressure and discomfort could easily result... and some with low back pain would require a small pillow or rolled up jacket under the knees.
She had to 'climb' up towards the head end some to find a good spot and adopted a slight ballerina leg position to help find comfort.
It's a bridge... but it's a failure in my book. It works, and a sleeper who isn't very picky would find it comfortable.
It does check off a few of the things folks discuss when comparing GE to bridges... but it's not there structurally so the amount of people it would work for long term is low. After a few nights of use the novelty of it would wear and the flaws become more and more apparent. There is really only one position that is acceptable, maybe a half back/half side or some different leg positions are available... but not many. The bridge forces you to the center in both length and width due to the deflection in the design.
This is a 1/2" grosgrain rolled webbing design with Robic 1.2... about as low as you can go structurally.
I like to find the bottom, and build back up from there. This is on the edge of what is acceptable... but the additions to it may not be as bad as it might seem. An ounce of webbing may do it.. an inch here or there on the pattern may be enough.
Balancing materials, occupant weight, and design goals is the name of the game. Unless you are fortunate enough to try dozens of different bridges; the subtleties are hard to convey.
Even when talking about a relatively simple Bic bridge...
Exactly which webbing you choose... Quest Outfitters, RBTR, and Dutch all carry different 1/2" webbings, sometimes multiple versions per vendor; all with different properties.
Simply changing the fabric you use with no other alterations would create dramatically different results. Hyper D 1.6, Hexon 1.6, Hybrid 1.7; three completely different bridges.
You may resolve your heel issue by trying HyperD 1.6 or Hybrid 1.2: Which may allow more deflection at specific areas of point loading like your heels.
A Hybrid 1.7 version may resolve your heel issue by reducing deflection at the center of the bridge... which would pick up your butt and torso so they were not dragging your feet down so much.
That's what's going on with this failure of mine... the balance is off.
It's hard then to define the size and shape of such a bridge... technically if this is the only position my wife can be in... then it's a 5'6" x 18" or so bedspace.
The Big Guy has at least 30" x 7'6" of very good bedspace and several inches around that to work with too. It's much more 'floating cot' than it is 'sweet spot in a hammock'.
A long and tedious explanation I know... but it's the correct answer and better than Apples and Oranges an my stuff's the best just buy it. That's not my style.
If you can DIY a bridge for $60 and it works for you... then my bridge isn't the best... It's a way overpriced unneeded luxury.
If you lay down in an endbar bridge and get back spasms or muscle cramps in 10 minutes... then you might as well burn that $60 while seated comfortably nearby instead.
There is rarely a best. Only good solutions to specific problems.
An if'n you ain't got a problem then you don't need a solution.
Last edited by Just Bill; 10-22-2018 at 10:29.
Just saw that Fugalster posted a few pictures from the MI Chili Hang.
A nice picture of James testing out a bridge and an explanation of what I consider a good flat lay.
Chili Hang BB-fugalster photo.jpg
Bridge Loading.pdf
Thanks Bill. You've upped my bridge knowledge a whole heap with that post.
Bill, is that pic from the MI Chili Hang a double layer? It's electric margaritaville on the inside, but looks tan on the outside.
But for the grace of God, there, I go...
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