Regular vs. Economy TQ's & Their Differences

[durunner]

Someone else said they like to look at cost spread out over how long it will last and I do that too. Also, how much you are planning to use.

I have a 0 degree Ghost Pepper and love it. I knew I eventually wanted a better summer quilt to replace my snugpak one. I wasnt planning on buying one yet, but could not pass on HGs in stock econ quilt. I will be receiving it tomorrow.

For me personality I pay top dollar for my winter gear and go cheaper for summer. In the harshness of winter, I want to know my gear is top of the line. The other three seasons, I dont care as much.

[Kroma]

For me personality I pay top dollar for my winter gear and go cheaper for summer. In the harshness of winter, I want to know my gear is top of the line.

That's strange logic to me though. The economy quilts made by the vendors here aren't any less high quality workmanship than the "premium" models.

[rweb82]

That's strange logic to me though. The economy quilts made by the vendors here aren't any less high quality workmanship than the "premium" models.

And according to the vendors, they should perform at their rated temps- whether it's economy or not.

[redgun24]

That's strange logic to me though. The economy quilts made by the vendors here aren't any less high quality workmanship than the "premium" models.

I sort of understand from a value perspective. If there is a 10% weight/space savings by going premium, you get "more" from a larger heavier model. I'm planning to get a ghost pepper 20 and a saver 40 for my set. That way when I do have to carry more in the winter I'll have some more weight/space to work with.

[Just Bill]

And according to the vendors, they should perform at their rated temps- whether it's economy or not.

Correct.

I sort of understand from a value perspective. If there is a 10% weight/space savings by going premium, you get "more" from a larger heavier model. I'm planning to get a ghost pepper 20 and a saver 40 for my set. That way when I do have to carry more in the winter I'll have some more weight/space to work with.

I think that's what he was trying to get across. When you're looking 40* nothing but the dollars pop out at you on the spec differences really unless the shell material isn't great. And on 8 ounces of down you're not going to see a huge difference between 800 and 900 fill. But when you're looking closer to 0* then it does start to pile up on the scale, pack size, etc.

I think he's also saying a bit of conventional wisdom too: When it's shoulder season or warmer you can put on a jacket, do a few jumping jacks or add a hot water bottle if you mess up a bit or the gear ain't quite perfect. Summer- meh you can take anything. But winter... ain't no room for jacking around... so not the time of year to cheap out or take a chance.

To Kroma's point:
This current situation is a bit unique. You're not buying cheap gear. You're buying premium products from highly qualified vendors who are passing some material savings on to you. I suspect a big part of this is the crazy low down prices so not sure how long these various "economy" offerings will be here. When down costs you $200 it doesn't make sense to fill anything but the best possible shell fabric. But when the down has bottomed out like this then saving an extra couple bucks a yard on shell material to match the low price of the down lets the vendors here offer a unique opportunity. The burrow econ for example... all the overhead of design and sorting out the pattern is done. So those overhead costs don't need to be applied, the fill material saw a massive drop in price and Dutch worked up an acceptable shell material for cheap. HG already knows how to sew it all up, they are just making a few swaps a budget minded MYOG person might make and cranking away. Other vendors here are doing something similar. It's not like you're running to XYZ sporting goods store and picking up a china cheapie- you're still getting pretty high end gear.

My personal thought though... with top of the line stuff dropping in price too... the real bargain right now is picking up premium products at a huge savings.
I did grab an econ to test with my bridge for my customers... so for something I don't actually plan to use much the econ made sense. If you were priced out of the market or a casual user the economy stuff is awesome.
But if you are familiar with the historic cost of most of these items... all quilts are fancy containers for the real money... down. I'd buy the premium shell and be happy with the deal on the fill currently going as once it goes back to normal you'll think your $200 "premium" was a real budget buy when they go back to $300-$400.

[Kroma]

Dutch's 1.1 Ion fabric would be considered "premium" in all retail outdoor stores. It's a matter of perspective. I like my 3-season stuff to be as light as possible but am willing to haul extra oz's in the winter. I wouldn't think twice about using an Econ Burrow 0 degree in the winter.

[souperjen24]

Thanks to all for this discussion... it's really given me a lot to think about. I decided, with the sales going on right now, that I am going to go ahead and get 2 TQ's... An Econ Burrow 40 as my summer quilt, to replace my sleeping bag. With this price I couldn't pass it up, even though my original intention was to just keep my sleeping bag as my warmer weather insulation!

And one of the "premium" TQ's, a 10* either 850 or 900 fill, for my Spring/Fall setup (which for me is essentially "winter," I'm so cold all the time). I haven't quite made my decision yet as to who I'm going with. I may even get a few ounces overfill, and this is the TQ that I'll use primarily, in temps to the 60's ... so it being a bit lighter and being able to compress a bit more will matter to me, using it a majority of the time as I believe I will.

Now for THAT decision

[Just Bill]

Dutch's 1.1 Ion fabric would be considered "premium" in all retail outdoor stores. It's a matter of perspective. I like my 3-season stuff to be as light as possible but am willing to haul extra oz's in the winter. I wouldn't think twice about using an Econ Burrow 0 degree in the winter.

What do you call a "retail outdoor store"?
If you're talking XYZ sporting goods or wally world... a 1.1 ounce nylon is probably pretty standard fare.

If you're talking REI or Moosejaw or a specialty store...anything Kelty (bargain) and above will use a similar fabric... anything else will be a high end shell material at or better than anything anyone could buy. Your basic house brand REI bag would be closer to an Argon .90 or better fabric.

Dutch retails his Ion for $4.50 yard.
Argon .67 is $10... So is Membrane 10.
Neither are Pertex or a brand name fabric... neither are really any worse because they don't carry that brand name.

There isn't anything magical about Ion. It's meant to be a nice budget fabric but the only thing premium about it is the low price.
Which is fine... different strokes for different folks and each pricepoint has a good product available.

[Just Bill]

Thanks to all for this discussion... it's really given me a lot to think about. I decided, with the sales going on right now, that I am going to go ahead and get 2 TQ's... An Econ Burrow 40 as my summer quilt, to replace my sleeping bag. With this price I couldn't pass it up, even though my original intention was to just keep my sleeping bag as my warmer weather insulation!

And one of the "premium" TQ's, a 10* either 850 or 900 fill, for my Spring/Fall setup (which for me is essentially "winter," I'm so cold all the time). I haven't quite made my decision yet as to who I'm going with. I may even get a few ounces overfill, and this is the TQ that I'll use primarily, in temps to the 60's ... so it being a bit lighter and being able to compress a bit more will matter to me, using it a majority of the time as I believe I will.

Now for THAT decision

Having just looked through some stuff for a friend at WB-
Katabatic Gear truly makes a premium quilt... for $500+.

The UGQ Renegade though is also a shaped quilt at a much more reasonable price... and the Bandit at 25% off introductory is a very good bargain at the moment.

[souperjen24]

Having just looked through some stuff for a friend at WB-
Katabatic Gear truly makes a premium quilt... for $500+.

The UGQ Renegade though is also a shaped quilt at a much more reasonable price... and the Bandit at 25% off introductory is a very good bargain at the moment.

Renegade, Bandit, Ghost Pepper, Burrow... Gahhh!