ViDEO: Closer Look at Whoopie Slings for Suspension

**Over_That_Way** · 02-11-2017, 20:58

I have actual marlin spikes. Made the spikes small enough to be the proper size for working with hammock size lines.

**rhjanes** · 02-11-2017, 22:08

Originally Posted by nj4x4fever

I need a refresher course in the art of making the marlin spike hitch in....slow......motion.....for some strange reason I'm not getting it right. Well back to Shug's videos to get me right on track.

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y8Yvvt39Luk

Shug's
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=giumWY1zknU

**nj4x4fever** · 02-11-2017, 22:19

Originally Posted by rhjanes

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y8Yvvt39Luk

Shug's
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=giumWY1zknU

This is the reason why I like this group so much. You all go out of your way to help us out. Thank you so much. I'm going to give it a try and see if I can get this. I've gotten so used to just using a carabiner through one of the loops in my Atlas straps. I have several types of suspension but I was so intimidated by that pesky marlin spike knot, that I stayed away from it.

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**CorwinC** · 02-12-2017, 11:46

Being the "ample" person that I am (280# ±), I have had the toggle in a Marlin-spike hitch fail on me twice. In both cases I had tied it properly and was "on the knot, not the toggle." The first was a finger size stick picked up off the ground which broke and dropped me about 1/2 hour after climbing in. No injury, but it was startling and took a while to figure out what happened. As a result I moved on to some pieces of aluminum tubing (3/8" diameter and 3/32" thick). One of these "failed" but it didn't drop me. It wrinkled up and folded in about 80°. I was fortunate that it pinched the webbing which jammed it in such a way that it didn't drop me. I didn't notice the bent toggle until taking the hammock down. I was about to resort to solid metal toggles or even another type of suspension when I discovered the Becket hitch. With the Becket hitch, there is no toggle. I tie the Becket "slippery" so it's easy to untie. The secret to tying a Becket to a whoopie sling is to adjust the sling to length before tying the Becket, because the knot severely resists the sling sliding back and forth. Another advantage that I quickly discovered is that I can hang between trees that are only a few inches longer than the hammock ridgeline by using the Becket hitch directly from the tree straps to the hammock loop.

I guess that my point in all of this is to be aware that the forces on the Marlin-spike toggle are significant and make sure that whatever you are using for that toggle is up to the task.

**Shug** · 02-12-2017, 12:07

Originally Posted by CorwinC

Being the "ample" person that I am (280# ±), I have had the toggle in a Marlin-spike hitch fail on me twice. In both cases I had tied it properly and was "on the knot, not the toggle." The first was a finger size stick picked up off the ground which broke and dropped me about 1/2 hour after climbing in. No injury, but it was startling and took a while to figure out what happened. As a result I moved on to some pieces of aluminum tubing (3/8" diameter and 3/32" thick). One of these "failed" but it didn't drop me. It wrinkled up and folded in about 80°. I was fortunate that it pinched the webbing which jammed it in such a way that it didn't drop me. I didn't notice the bent toggle until taking the hammock down. I was about to resort to solid metal toggles or even another type of suspension when I discovered the Becket hitch. With the Becket hitch, there is no toggle. I tie the Becket "slippery" so it's easy to untie. The secret to tying a Becket to a whoopie sling is to adjust the sling to length before tying the Becket, because the knot severely resists the sling sliding back and forth. Another advantage that I quickly discovered is that I can hang between trees that are only a few inches longer than the hammock ridgeline by using the Becket hitch directly from the tree straps to the hammock loop.

I guess that my point in all of this is to be aware that the forces on the Marlin-spike toggle are significant and make sure that whatever you are using for that toggle is up to the task.

I must say that I have never heard of the MSH fail when the amsteel was on the knot. Did your slip to the toggle?

**CorwinC** · 02-12-2017, 15:52

Shug

It's an honor to converse with you ... your videos were a large part of getting me interested in hammocks.

The first occurrence I'm sure that the stick that I chose as a toggle just wasn't strong enough. Brand new to hammocks, fresh after watching one of your MSH videos, I'm all but certain that I had it right. I picked the stick I used as a toggle up off the ground and it could have easily been a little bit soft or punky and that is what I believe caused it to fail. The knot was completely undone and the two pieces of the stick were found almost straight down on the ground broken surprisingly cleanly. This experience led me to my Al tubing toggles.

The second, the toggle bent right where the strap that goes back to the tree crosses it and the sling was still on the knot. In the image you attached it was as if the shiniest parts of the toggle came together around the strap and at that point it stopped bending. I had to bend the toggle back straight to get the strap out (which took a scary small amount of effort.) Those toggles were sourced from a pile of scrap metal, so the alloy that they were made of could have been too soft. Unfortunately, I returned them to scrap right afterward so me or my kids wouldn't accidentally use them again. From these experiences I learned to know the capability of the materials that I use before trusting them (a good idea for all DIYers who often use what's at hand rather than buying the ideal material.)

Looking back, I was quite new at hanging and may have had my suspension way too tight. I used 1/8" amsteel for my DIY whoopie slings and a 7/64" amsteel ridgeline. The way that the forces go up when you leave the recommended 30° angle it is conceivable that I simply over-stressed things and with my over-designed equipment, the toggle is what failed. I do have 3/8" solid aluminum toggles in my bag now, but I generally use the Becket hitch because psychologically it feels more comfortable to me.

Overall, I have found that I enjoy hammocks. I like their "fiddly" nature and currently my setup (hammock, tarp, TQ, UQ) is hardware free except for the stakes. No toggles, no rings, no hooks, no clips, no 'biners, no buckles and only about four or five different knots. In the process, I have learned to really look at my equipment and take into account even the smallest signs of stress and/or wear. It has been a fun ride.

Thanks again Shug ... ALL SECURE IN WHATEVER SECTOR I'M IN ...

**Over_That_Way** · 02-12-2017, 16:35

Shug!!
I know you have a set of the new DutchWare beetle buckles. I just watched this video again and got an idea. I hope you can check this out for me as my beetle buckles have not shipped yet. Instead of a toggle on the strap, use the beetle buckle to the whoopie. I am thinking of sewing the buckle onto my strap permanently... because loosing your dutch bling in the woods is the worst!!!

Could you give it a try for me?

**Shug** · 02-12-2017, 17:24

Originally Posted by CorwinC

Shug

It's an honor to converse with you ... your videos were a large part of getting me interested in hammocks.

The first occurrence I'm sure that the stick that I chose as a toggle just wasn't strong enough. Brand new to hammocks, fresh after watching one of your MSH videos, I'm all but certain that I had it right. I picked the stick I used as a toggle up off the ground and it could have easily been a little bit soft or punky and that is what I believe caused it to fail. The knot was completely undone and the two pieces of the stick were found almost straight down on the ground broken surprisingly cleanly. This experience led me to my Al tubing toggles.

The second, the toggle bent right where the strap that goes back to the tree crosses it and the sling was still on the knot. In the image you attached it was as if the shiniest parts of the toggle came together around the strap and at that point it stopped bending. I had to bend the toggle back straight to get the strap out (which took a scary small amount of effort.) Those toggles were sourced from a pile of scrap metal, so the alloy that they were made of could have been too soft. Unfortunately, I returned them to scrap right afterward so me or my kids wouldn't accidentally use them again. From these experiences I learned to know the capability of the materials that I use before trusting them (a good idea for all DIYers who often use what's at hand rather than buying the ideal material.)

Looking back, I was quite new at hanging and may have had my suspension way too tight. I used 1/8" amsteel for my DIY whoopie slings and a 7/64" amsteel ridgeline. The way that the forces go up when you leave the recommended 30° angle it is conceivable that I simply over-stressed things and with my over-designed equipment, the toggle is what failed. I do have 3/8" solid aluminum toggles in my bag now, but I generally use the Becket hitch because psychologically it feels more comfortable to me.

Overall, I have found that I enjoy hammocks. I like their "fiddly" nature and currently my setup (hammock, tarp, TQ, UQ) is hardware free except for the stakes. No toggles, no rings, no hooks, no clips, no 'biners, no buckles and only about four or five different knots. In the process, I have learned to really look at my equipment and take into account even the smallest signs of stress and/or wear. It has been a fun ride.

Thanks again Shug ... ALL SECURE IN WHATEVER SECTOR I'M IN ...

Fiddle onward. I like that as well.

Originally Posted by Over_That_Way

Shug!!
I know you have a set of the new DutchWare beetle buckles. I just watched this video again and got an idea. I hope you can check this out for me as my beetle buckles have not shipped yet. Instead of a toggle on the strap, use the beetle buckle to the whoopie. I am thinking of sewing the buckle onto my strap permanently... because loosing your dutch bling in the woods is the worst!!!

Could you give it a try for me?

I have Beetle Buckles on the long strap. I guess you could use Beetle Buckes on a tree strap if you wanted.....basically like a Cinch Bug. http://www.dutchwaregear.com/cinch-bugs.html