Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 18
  1. #1
    New Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2016
    Location
    NL
    Hammock
    Warbonnet XLC
    Tarp
    Superfly
    Insulation
    Pad
    Suspension
    Whoopie
    Posts
    6

    Sleeping pad minimum temperature and R-values

    Hi,

    I'm new here and just started with hammock camping last month. I have about 25 nights sleep now mostly indoors, but I tried outdoors yesterday with a sleeping pad in a WB XLC. My pad is a Sea to Summit ultralight insulated pad with an R-value of 3.3, but I was actually quite cold in weather of 26 degree fahrenheit, -3 degree celsius. I am thinking of buying either an underquilt or using a sleeping pad with a higher R-value. What are the minimum temperatures that people have reached with pads and what are the R-values of those pads? Is the difference between a pad with an R-Value of 3.3 and 5 really that big?

  2. #2
    WoodsWalker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2016
    Location
    Wolf Lake Baldwin MI
    Hammock
    Dutch Chameleon
    Tarp
    Henessey/Dutchware
    Insulation
    UGQ UQ and TQ
    Suspension
    Dutch straps
    Posts
    28

    Sleeping pad minimum temperature and R-values

    I have used the Big Agnes Q core down to 17 degrees with the MSS sleep system and was toasty warm. It is rated at 5 r value


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  3. #3
    all secure in sector 7 Shug's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Minnesota
    Hammock
    I have many so....
    Tarp
    Blackcrow DIY Tarp
    Insulation
    FrankenquiltUQ/Pod
    Suspension
    Whoopie Slings
    Posts
    23,394
    Images
    62
    Here is an R-Value chart.....you lose a little in a hammock compared to ground.
    Shug

    Whooooo Buddy)))) All Secure in Sector Seven

  4. #4
    New Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2016
    Location
    NL
    Hammock
    Warbonnet XLC
    Tarp
    Superfly
    Insulation
    Pad
    Suspension
    Whoopie
    Posts
    6
    Thanks Shug,

    That table is quite useful. I read online that R-values add up, so adding some insulation would fix the problem. Or I have to use another sleeping pad.

  5. #5
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Location
    Valpo, IN
    Hammock
    Towns-End Luxury Bridge
    Posts
    1,746
    I find that the air style pads (especially a NeoAir) are a full 20* off the rating I would achieve if used on the ground.
    Shug and others could probably give better feedback on down filled mats but I suspect those do much better.

    The exped insulated pads do a bit better- but looks like woodswalker is coming up with about the same with the Q-core which is similar construction. The STS pads have pretty large un-insulated swaths at the edges. If you blow yours up and look at it against the light (like a patio door) you'll see what I mean. The Exped and Big Agnes have a better insulation and insulate further. Also- some disagree but for me (5'10, 220lbs, and size L or XL shirt) I need a wide pad (25") or I have too much exposure in my shoulders. So unless you are a careful sidesleeper or smaller shouldered person you will end up chilled.

    An R-5 pad is zero on the ground all day and matches the chart Shug posted... but I wouldn't push it much past 20 in the air as WoodsWalker observed.
    http://www.exped.com/usa/en/product-...t-hyperlite-lw This is the pad I use most often and find 40ish degrees about right though on the ground I could easily get to the 20's.
    This is the winter version... debating between this and the Q-core for my next purchase. http://www.exped.com/usa/en/product-...-winterlite-lw
    This is opposed to my NeoAir Xlite and Xtherm which I find can easily loose 20-35 degrees as they rely purely on air chambers to function. The best I've done with the Xtherm is freezing, but I have gone to zero and under on the ground with it.

    The bonus though (IMO) with a good pad is that if you find yourself pushing things you can easily go to ground and pick back up quite a bit of warmth if you're not pushing temps often enough to justify the costs of an upgrade. I've simply loosened my whoopies before to drop the whole rig to the ground if needed when I wake up chilled. I don't personally do enough hanging at zero to justify purchasing a down filled pad... and if I did I'd just get an UQ and be done with it. But for 20's and up I think pads have their place (especially if you own one already.)

    That said- even an 1/8" Gossamer Gear style pad can do wonders for pushing an air pad if you don't want to invest in something newer. I think there is just too much convection losses for the air pad to cope. They are designed for ground use (conduction losses) so it's a bit unfair to judge them too harsh as they do that job very well and most brands are accurate to Shug's scale.

  6. #6
    all secure in sector 7 Shug's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Minnesota
    Hammock
    I have many so....
    Tarp
    Blackcrow DIY Tarp
    Insulation
    FrankenquiltUQ/Pod
    Suspension
    Whoopie Slings
    Posts
    23,394
    Images
    62
    Quote Originally Posted by sab24 View Post
    Thanks Shug,

    That table is quite useful. I read online that R-values add up, so adding some insulation would fix the problem. Or I have to use another sleeping pad.
    For your perusal.......
    Shug

    Whooooo Buddy)))) All Secure in Sector Seven

  7. #7
    New Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2016
    Location
    NL
    Hammock
    Warbonnet XLC
    Tarp
    Superfly
    Insulation
    Pad
    Suspension
    Whoopie
    Posts
    6
    Quote Originally Posted by Just Bill View Post
    I find that the air style pads (especially a NeoAir) are a full 20* off the rating I would achieve if used on the ground.
    Shug and others could probably give better feedback on down filled mats but I suspect those do much better.

    The exped insulated pads do a bit better- but looks like woodswalker is coming up with about the same with the Q-core which is similar construction. The STS pads have pretty large un-insulated swaths at the edges. If you blow yours up and look at it against the light (like a patio door) you'll see what I mean. The Exped and Big Agnes have a better insulation and insulate further. Also- some disagree but for me (5'10, 220lbs, and size L or XL shirt) I need a wide pad (25") or I have too much exposure in my shoulders. So unless you are a careful sidesleeper or smaller shouldered person you will end up chilled.

    An R-5 pad is zero on the ground all day and matches the chart Shug posted... but I wouldn't push it much past 20 in the air as WoodsWalker observed.
    http://www.exped.com/usa/en/product-...t-hyperlite-lw This is the pad I use most often and find 40ish degrees about right though on the ground I could easily get to the 20's.
    This is the winter version... debating between this and the Q-core for my next purchase. http://www.exped.com/usa/en/product-...-winterlite-lw
    This is opposed to my NeoAir Xlite and Xtherm which I find can easily loose 20-35 degrees as they rely purely on air chambers to function. The best I've done with the Xtherm is freezing, but I have gone to zero and under on the ground with it.

    The bonus though (IMO) with a good pad is that if you find yourself pushing things you can easily go to ground and pick back up quite a bit of warmth if you're not pushing temps often enough to justify the costs of an upgrade. I've simply loosened my whoopies before to drop the whole rig to the ground if needed when I wake up chilled. I don't personally do enough hanging at zero to justify purchasing a down filled pad... and if I did I'd just get an UQ and be done with it. But for 20's and up I think pads have their place (especially if you own one already.)

    That said- even an 1/8" Gossamer Gear style pad can do wonders for pushing an air pad if you don't want to invest in something newer. I think there is just too much convection losses for the air pad to cope. They are designed for ground use (conduction losses) so it's a bit unfair to judge them too harsh as they do that job very well and most brands are accurate to Shug's scale.
    Thanks! This is some usefull info. I just looked at my sleeping pad and indeed only in the centre there is a small reflective foam so that the R-value is attained. I'm thinking of buying the Thermarest Xtherm as people seem to use it sucessfully in really cold temperatures on the ground. Subtracting 20 degrees fahrenheit there should still be enough margin left.

  8. #8
    New Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2016
    Location
    NL
    Hammock
    Warbonnet XLC
    Tarp
    Superfly
    Insulation
    Pad
    Suspension
    Whoopie
    Posts
    6
    Quote Originally Posted by Shug View Post
    For your perusal.......
    Shug

    Thanks shug. I have seen quite a lot of videos of you already and have seen that one as well. An underquilt would be great but I can't take it to the ground which I will need when I am above the treeline and in the desert in Asia. I either need to buy an insulated pad or get an underquilt and carry both the quilt and the path, but I have to reduce my pack weight a lot to compensate for the underquilt weight.

  9. #9
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Location
    Valpo, IN
    Hammock
    Towns-End Luxury Bridge
    Posts
    1,746
    Quote Originally Posted by sab24 View Post
    Thanks! This is some usefull info. I just looked at my sleeping pad and indeed only in the centre there is a small reflective foam so that the R-value is attained. I'm thinking of buying the Thermarest Xtherm as people seem to use it sucessfully in really cold temperatures on the ground. Subtracting 20 degrees fahrenheit there should still be enough margin left.
    http://www.exped.com/usa/en/product-...-winterlite-lw
    https://www.rei.com/product/881575/t...m-sleeping-pad

    Agree- very hard to argue with the NeoAir Xtherm- by far the most popular air pad for LD backpackers. (I've owned several of various flavors).
    I don't have the winterlite but have put a good 60+ nights on the exped mats I do have and they seem plenty durable.

    The Xtherm requires a good bit of deflation to use comfortably IMO in a hammock, which again likely is one reason it does the worst of all in the air. I can do zero on the ground but 30 or so is it in a hammock.

    I like the Exped much better than the Neo-Air series and have been switching over to those. It's basically Primaloft Gold insulation in there and the horizontal baffles are more comfortable in a hammock... with little difference on the ground really.

    I'd look very hard at the Exped... the only caution I'd give is if you are traveling... the trail tested Xtherm may be the better choice only because a return/replacement if something happened would be tough. (athough Exped is international).

  10. #10
    OlTrailDog's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Location
    Corvallis/Stevensville, MT
    Hammock
    Hammocktent 90*, Sparrow, WBBB XLC
    Tarp
    light & waterproof
    Insulation
    Ongoing experiment
    Suspension
    Ongoing experiment
    Posts
    1,873
    I have both Exped Synmats and Downmats. I can use the Synmat in the summer time. But when it gets colder it is definitely Downmat time. I have had the DM 9 LW and the DM UL LW 7. The DM 9 was siimply too heavy for backpacking and I sold it to afford other goodies. I can augment the DM UL LW 7 with a AHD 3/4 Ridgecreek or a Costco down throw if need be. Regular width pads are definitely not recommended. Thermodynamically, or even comfort wise, is not feasible to obtain the low temperature range of a good down UQ by using a pad, but you may be able to meet your specific needs with a pad or pad/inexpensive DiY 3/4 UQ combination.

  • + New Posts
  • Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

    Similar Threads

    1. Replies: 7
      Last Post: 12-21-2016, 22:33
    2. minimum hanging distance?
      By nyoom in forum General Hammock Talk
      Replies: 16
      Last Post: 02-21-2015, 09:19
    3. Minimum Width...
      By baldwima in forum Do-It-Yourself (DIY)
      Replies: 13
      Last Post: 08-24-2013, 16:06
    4. Your comfortable minimum coverage?
      By Highbinder in forum Weather Protection
      Replies: 16
      Last Post: 05-10-2011, 18:15
    5. Combined sleeping bag temperature rating
      By Peter_pan in forum Articles
      Replies: 0
      Last Post: 12-02-2006, 02:30

    Tags for this Thread

    Bookmarks

    Posting Permissions

    • You may not post new threads
    • You may not post replies
    • You may not post attachments
    • You may not edit your posts
    •