Big boy bridge at hangcon.

**Floridahanger** · 01-17-2017, 10:11

Originally Posted by Trail Runner

Hangcon? A convention for hammock campers or hammock makers or both? And where?

Thanks.

It bears repeating.

Hammock Hanging Convention 2017. Or HangCon 2017.

It started as the Annual Florida Hang in Jan 2011 and renamed after FHV in 2015 had over 250(I think) folks. HangCon 2016 had over 330 hangers(a few tenters to convert) and still growing strong in Ocala National Forest, Florida.

Many vendors come to rest, relax, and they just can't help themselves and show us their newest and best wares. Example- Dutch will be showing us his new Chameleon this weekend and has graciously added one to the raffle.

Sorry, back to your regularly scheduled BigBoyBridge Hammock at HangCon 2017 conversation.

**Just Bill** · 01-17-2017, 10:28

Originally Posted by Eidson

Although I'm no big boy, I hope to see your business venture develop Bill. Having read lots of your ideas that you've shared and seeing small glimpses of the work, I think you'll meet success whatever the scale of operation that you choose to proceed with.
Personally I'm very intrigued to see your primaloft quilts after you discussed your extensive work with them in a thread a while back. Plus, I think the bridge hammock market is pretty small currently for the demand that seems to be out there.

Thanks! Secondmouse has a TQ and UQ in the Primaloft Gold he's playing with. They are mainly intended for ground use as that's where the design came from. After a few starts and stops... I choose to narrow my focus to two sizes and only one temp range (45*) so I could hopefully bring them forward on some scale. That said... I'm a gram weenie at heart and while I could make a more efficient/trimmer cut design in a hammock specific TQ- they work just fine and even the large size is coming in about 18 ounces and 3.5L packed size or so after the addition of a footbox zipper. It's been a rough few years trying to get this going... but the quilt is slowly starting to see the light of day and I may be doing a pre-production run in the near future.

The debate right now is if the same insulation level on a 45* TQ will transfer to a similar rating in an UQ... I don't think so personally and I'm testing some options to use a slightly heavier insulation for that purpose. I suspect a fair rating with the current insulation would be 55* when used as an UQ. I hadn't intended to get into UQ's but Gallo asked me at a local hang to try one and it came together pretty easily. That was last year and since then I have been coming up with some 42" x 58" (3/4 plus) sized Primaloft Gold UQ's that are coming in around 10 ounces with suspension and proving to be pretty sweet summer quilts (especially if I can get them to $100 retail). And the Primaloft Gold really shines at those temps/humidity conditions and rivals down for pack size and weight (even beats down sometimes).

Yar... I'm in the camp that say's "ANOTHER HAMMOCK VENDOR! ARGGH."
So I don't want to offer things that folks already offer or too much "me too" stuff.
Nobody anywhere does Primaloft Gold (premium synthetics).
And while V.Allen made a nice effort... that unfortunately didn't pan out. That said- this style of bridge (recessed bars) is much different than an end bar design in my opinion and really is it's own category of product.

If anyone wants a regular bridge... I have 10 HyperD 1.6 SL "Just a Bridge" hammocks (200ish pound, 36" bar bridge) that I'll be selling soon as pre-production models.
I am so sold on the Hybrid 1.7 XL that I am not going to discontinue use of the HyperD 1.6 and switch over. That fabric seems like it was made for bridges...so seems a shame not to use it.

**Secondmouse** · 01-17-2017, 11:41

Originally Posted by johnspenn

Who is Bill? Does he have a store? Website?

Bill is Just Bill, and a pretty clever fellow... I got introduced to him through discussions on another site about hiking talking about quilts. He and I share a similar philosophy about insulation (synthetic vs down), temperatures at which each is optimal, and also layering. he described top and bottom quilts that he has designed using Primaloft Gold synthetic insulation, instead of Climashield Apex, and the benefits are significant.

Primaloft Gold has the highest CLO (warmth) rating of any synthetic insulation, is warmer when wet, and most significant to me, it packs down considerably smaller than CS Apex!..

on the other hand, CS Apex is the defacto synthetic insulation for bags and quilts mostly because of one factor - it is a continuous filament insulation that allows it to be constructed without stabilizing stitching or quilting. in short, an Apex quilt is just a nylon bag with the insulation stitched into the edge seams. that's an oversimplification but a pretty accurate description. my 40* Apex quilt is a big blousy bag that can sometimes be a pain trying to adjust it around my shoulders in the hammock.

Bill has developed a proprietary method (actually more than one) of stabilizing the Primaloft within the quilt that, as I said, is pretty darn clever. his quilts drape better and have an almost "garment-like" feel.

since you're near me, I have a couple of his "pre-production" 45* top and under quilts I could meet and share with you. I've done some testing hanging on my screened in porch and am very impressed with both the function and the design but I'll let him go into it further if you/he wish.

if you or anyone local to the ATL area is interested, PM me to exchange cell #'s and we can arrange a meet up...

**johnspenn** · 01-17-2017, 21:25

Thanks Just Bill and Second Mouse for all the info. I was feeling like i should have known who he was and didn't. Bill your work sounds interesting, keep us informed!

**Loaf** · 01-18-2017, 23:21

Bill, really excited to hear about what you're trying to do man. I'm almost 6'4", but I'm not big in the other dimension. I've been wondering about bridge hammocks due to this recently (calf ridge problems with GE hammocks). I'd like to follow whatever ends up developing, so please post a link here if you end up posting something elsewhere!

**Just Bill** · 01-19-2017, 10:28

Originally Posted by Loaf

Bill, really excited to hear about what you're trying to do man. I'm almost 6'4", but I'm not big in the other dimension. I've been wondering about bridge hammocks due to this recently (calf ridge problems with GE hammocks). I'd like to follow whatever ends up developing, so please post a link here if you end up posting something elsewhere!

I got this PM as well as a few emails from the other thread so figured I'd answer for all to see:
Bill
Did I read in a thread that you've been working on a bridge hammock design? I'm almost 6'4", but I typically weigh less 200 lbs (180 at the moment), unless I'm really eating like a horse and working out. I've got pretty broad shoulders, and I've been little concerned with just getting a WB ridge runner, as I'm concerned about shoulder squeeze and the length required between the trees. I see that you're working on the BigDamBridge Hammock, but are you looking at something more lightweight (not necessarily ultralight - that becomes a little too delicate in my experience) - maybe like an Ariel type bridge? If so, what's the status on that?

I make three bridges- they are all recessed bar bridges with channel suspension (as opposed to webbing) and might as well give credit where credit is due and call them similar to Grizz's latest Ariel. I have been developing these for a few years now and have tried end bar and webbing suspensions so while there are some similarities for sure; they are not knock-offs. However I'd say they are all still in "pre-production"; the sizes and patterns are mainly dialed in, but the product hasn't had enough nights in the field and there aren't any accessories (bug net, UQ, tarp) ready to go. There may be one final round of tinkering/fabric selection but these are pretty well ready. I wasn't really planning on doing anything with these in the near future... but if there is interest...guess I better make hay. I will try to get some better pictures together and perhaps even see if I can find some younger cousin of mine who can shoot one of them fancy videos.

The Micro Bridge- which is an asymmetrical recessed bar bridge designed for SUL backpacking. It weighs (current version) 9.5 oz and uses 26" spreader bars. It is deep enough for an inflatable sleeping pad and was designed for FKT/Speed hikers and UL backpackers. This bridge has held up okay up to 225lbs but is ideal around 180lb or less. As it is a super ultra light specialty bridge- durability is sacrificed a bit for weight but I have used previous versions for up to 100 nights before they required some work or had to be retired. This is an item that I would not recommend for very many folks to be honest... in part it is a "party trick" and began as a private competition on my part to beat the bridge Grizz displayed in his "counting grams" video several years back. It's a functional piece of gear but very specialized. That said for an athletic built fast and light person (med clothing, 170 or less, or petite women/teens) this may be a pretty sweet option. This is really ideal for that ground dweller who sleeps on a 20" pad but is looking for a step up in comfort but your average hanger in a GE would probably not be interested.

Just a Bridge is a symmetrical recessed bar bridge. The hyperD 1.6 versions are coming in about 1lb 4 oz in the stuff sack- no suspension. This is the one made "for most" and is meant to be pretty no frills and general purpose. If you were going compare it to the master- this would be my Ariel. (Or for a nod to another inspiration- my "people's bridge" ala WV) The pole to fabric ratio is similar to the Ariel but the rest of the dimensions are not. My ends are much further recessed than the Ariel... or more accurately there is much more "bridge" beyond the bars than his and my bars are 6" closer in the center. This allows a very wide range of users of different heights and sleep positions. I have some pre-production models made from HyperD 1.6 on hand, but will be switching to the Hybrid Robic 1.7 for future runs so that I can consolidate the fabric I stock. The intended load will be up to 225lbs and user heights up to 6'6" should be fine, though the largest person in it has been 6'3". Basically if you wear a men's large... you'll probably find this comfortable. If you are an XL you may find a bit of squeeze in the shoulders- however a pad can easily resolve that too. This bridge uses .625 bars and 36" poles so it packs to a more manageable 20" or so.

Big Guy/Luxury Bridge Described as above- as I mentioned to a few responders today- it's worth noting that there is a 26" bar in there so that may be a factor in pack size for some folks. I will probably end up re-naming this the "luxury" bridge as that seems the more appropriate choice already. It started with the "big guy" problem but I'm getting gals who are interested and more importantly- it's plain comfy period no matter who you are. My 5'4" 120lb wife is in love and she doesn't like hammocks. So while it may not make a ton of sense from my UL backpacking perspective to carry a 2.5lbs bridge and all the fixins on a 30 mile day... for casual trips, car camping, scouting, or the many other folks who habitat the diverse world of hammock camping... you'll probably really like it. My personal favorite remains the micro bridge... only because of the engineering and design challenges. But as far as pulling one off the shelf to sleep in or take on all but the hardest of trips... this bridge is the one. Other than cost... if you don't care about weight it would be a pretty safe bet.

Cost-
Speaking of... I don't know. That's another issue with pre-production models. I have some ideas, and they seem reasonable... but I try to keep my stuff as cheap as I can. But if I'm to open my mouth I guess a ballpark is fair. A recessed bar bridge is much more labor intensive to sew, but I'd like to try to keep it competitive with other options however at some point I may just need to accept that these are hard to build and mildly specialized and simply cost what they cost. Even for a pro... pressing, folding, and pinning multiple layers of fabric to create the channel suspension on a clean smooth curve is difficult. Unlike many things... there is no automated machine that would speed up.

Micro and Just a Bridge- Including stuff sack, poles, and internal suspension (but not tree suspension) these are looking around $160 pre-production, but will probably creep to $200 eventually (especially the micro). They may have a Ridgeline in there and a pocket or two built into the bridges. I haven't made any choices regarding bug nets yet but some options are on the table and perhaps an integrated net will come along but for now I'm only looking at "Naked" Bridges for pre-production.

Big Guy/Luxury- Double layer Hybrid Robic 1.7 XL fabric, heavy duty bars, 1/8" precision spliced amsteel, pockets, ridgeline and tricky to build. I don't see myself able to do much better than $300 at this time even for a Naked Bridge. That may even go up from there. I guess it is inline with the Amok but to be blunt it seems expensive even to me. I'll keep running some numbers and playing with it but there is quite a bit of labor in these that I don't see getting much smoother without some dramatic reworking of the process/design.
A 3/4 length quilt fits these pretty well simply shock corded off the corners, full length UQ takes some fiddling; but any wide pad slaps in there with out a thought. And at a roughly 11' ridgeline they are designed to fit under a hex or winter 12' tarp... though you may want a spreader pole option on your tarp if you are pitching low.

Ends-
I do know how to build end caps

but my bridges do not have endcaps on purpose. Building a perfect bridge for a specific person (height, weight, etc) is challenging, but building a bridge that works for folks 5'-6'6" tall, 120lbs to 220lbs, using multiple types and thicknesses of sleeping pads or no pad at all and sleeping in all kinds of different positions is downright tricky. By throwing the ends of the bridges way past the spreader pole and adding a simple adjustment point each end of the bridge can be adjusted to you. It may not work for every one but this is a fairly successful "one size fits most" strategy. So if you want to side sleep and curl up- you crank down the ends. If you want to belly sleep you can adjust the head end to make a dip for your arm to slip into and reduce or eliminate any negative pressure on your back. So... adjustable ends means the most possible users can find the most possible sleep positions in each model.

Pads-
Because I come from a long distance hiking background/mindset- all my bridges were designed to work well with a pad. To be fair any bridge works well with a pad- though with the popular inflatables (like the Neo-Air) you have to be careful about clearance and "tippiness" which these bridges were designed for. While a hammock forum member is likely to use a blue foamie or Reflectix pad, a ground dwelling backpacker is likely to be using an air pad so I designed with that in mind. On a trail like the AT; there are times when having a pad along is very handy. If you're talking a speed hike... you need the ability to throw down wherever you end up that day. If you're talking a camper/backpacker thinking of trying a hammock... they already own a pad and may prefer that. That said... there is not a hammock in the world that isn't more comfy with an UQ and my bridges are no exception. However at this time I haven't developed any bridge specific items like an UQ... so some adaption is required and something like the micro bridge needs it's own specialized UQ. Unless you are fairly small- you will need a Wide pad (25" or bigger) or an SPE type system to cover your shoulders in all these bridges. The big guy bride was designed to work with pads as large as the Exped Hyperlight Duomat, the micro was designed to work with wide pads like the Neo-Air series or even the Small neo-air for fair weather minimalist trips.

Sleep positions-
The micro- back sleeping is fine for most, but will get restrictive for many with wider shoulders, but only petite folks can belly sleep- however even at my current 5'10 and 230lbs I find it very comfy as a side sleeper and I have had users up to 6'3" in it... who asked me to shorten it to save even more weight, lol. Again... most folks won't want this thing.

Just a Bridge- folks under 175 or so can probably belly sleep... much past that though and you will get some negative pressure at your low back. However all other positions are good. Folks past 225 and wearing XL clothing will probably want to move up a size and/or find this wear out faster but for many people this is an ideal balance of weight, comfort, pack size and durability.

Luxury bridge- sky's the limit.