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  1. #31
    Member erric's Avatar
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    One thing that I did notice was that the down in the draft collars had all migrated to the center of the collar. Because they're unbaffled, the down naturally moves to the lowest point, and trying to fluff it back into the ends of the collar didn't seem to have any effect. I don't think that was necessarily the cause of my CBS but it did confuse me that the collars don't have chambers.

  2. #32
    all secure in sector 7 Shug's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by erric View Post
    One thing that I did notice was that the down in the draft collars had all migrated to the center of the collar. Because they're unbaffled, the down naturally moves to the lowest point, and trying to fluff it back into the ends of the collar didn't seem to have any effect. I don't think that was necessarily the cause of my CBS but it did confuse me that the collars don't have chambers.
    Try shaking the down back in place with a quick brisk snap. Or try putting it in the dryer on low or air fluff to get the down moving and fluffed.
    Shug

    Whooooo Buddy)))) All Secure in Sector Seven

  3. #33
    Member erric's Avatar
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    Thanks for the tips shug, I just watched your video on secondary suspension for the first time in maybe a year... and I'm thinking maybe my main issue was not tightening the secondary suspension enough. Because the shock cord was so tight, I didn't get aggressive with it, and I probably should have. Looking at the video, I wasn't at the level of lift you show.

  4. #34
    Senior Member MikekiM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by erric View Post
    I just spent 5 nights in the North Cascades with persistent CBS and cold lower back with my 20 degree Phoenix, in temps in the 40s. I actually randomly clicked on this thread maybe a week ago, and remembered the comment about keeping the draft collars loose, and unfortunately that didn't seem to be my issue. I fiddled with it every which way and couldn't figure it out. It may partially be because this is my first time using it, and the shock cord is still so tight that even lightly tightening it for an asymmetrical fit the tension was so strong that the little lineloc things couldn't hold the cord in place, and it would slip right through. I'm going to give the dutch quilt hooks a shot, and maybe try stretching out that shock cord.
    I keep the collars pretty loose. Haven't seen issue with the down migrating, but I do shake it before and after every setup, unless it's raining. Also I don't bother with the asym fit on the phoenix.

    Could you tell if it was the head or foot end that is venting?

    I have added about two feet of shock cord to all of my HG UQs primary suspension. It's just too tight for my liking.
    Yes, my pack weighs 70lbs, but it's all light weight gear....
    Bob's brother-in-law

  5. #35
    Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by erric View Post
    This differs from other recommendations I've seen; are you saying you tighten the secondary suspension on both the foot and head end on the right side? Rather than tightening it on the left side of the head end and the right side of the foot end for a head left/feet right lay?
    Try your method first.If the advice came from Shug then it's the way to do it.Honestly,it's been a while since I tweaked mine but I do remember tightening it a little more on the right side so that if the UQ decides to pull off a shoulder,it will always be my left shoulder.I hate it when it pulled off my right shoulder and had to get up and get it back in position in the middle of the night.Once I got my tensions dialed in correctly it is mostly a non-issue now.

  6. #36
    Member erric's Avatar
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    So I just set up my phoenix on my stand on the deck, and granted, Seattle temps are much warmer than at 6000ft in the mountains, but after really cranking on the secondary suspension and getting it "higher than you think you would need" as Shug said, I'm confident the loose secondary suspension was my issue. I felt like I had a furnace under my butt. Tightening it asymmetrically seemed to be the right move, too. It's like you said Mike, the HG suspension is crazy tight, but it needs to be tightened more still to get the UQ pressed up against the hammock properly. Thanks for the troubleshooting help everyone. As a distance hiker, the extra fiddle factor on a partial length is absolutely worth the weight savings. I also never seem to get cold feet even without a pad with the partial length, so it seems like a no brainer. I may sell my full length UGQ Zeppelin 20 after this winter. My 20 degree phoenix comes in a full 10oz lighter!

  7. #37
    cougarmeat's Avatar
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    >My 20 degree phoenix comes in a full 10oz lighter!

    But is it as warm? One vendor's 20 degrees can be different from another's. Last night I put on my half to three quarter 0 degree UQ (matched with a 20 degree UGQ) that has had very little field time. I bought it in ForSale long ago; don't recall vendor tags. This time I used a little cord and S-biner to connect to the main bungee (there is no secondary; it is not HG), go over the top of the ridgeline and pull up the bungee on the other side. Very toasty. I'm going to add a pair of those pull-ups to my suspension kit. They would even been useful - though not as necessary - on the HG secondary suspension. The trick is to place them so they (or the new bungee angles) don't get in the way of entry/exit.

    I may remove (or add clips to for easy off/on) the pullouts on my Blackbird. I can't remember the last time I used them; they just seem in the way. Unless, in the field, I could stake the pull out at an angle toward the head end instead of directly perpendicular to the hammock were they get in the way - at least the enter/exit side one does.

    I'm very impressed with the comfort range of the 20 degree UGQ. In fairness, a sewn footbox will be warmer than the cinching on the HG model.
    In order to see what few have seen, you must go where few have gone. And DO what few have done.

  8. #38
    Member erric's Avatar
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    It's true, the Zeppelin is fantastically warm and I've taken it to its 20 degree rating and been plenty comfortable. It would be hard to make a comparison in warmth because 1. I haven't been using my phoenix correctly, and 2. I would need to take them both into conditions close to their rating and swap them out to really test it. Looking at their respective product sheets, the 55" 950 UGQ Zeppelin (shortest offered in the configuration) has 9.17oz of down, and the equivalent 52" Phoenix has 7.52oz. So the UGQ is more conservatively rated, but it's also more expensive.

    For me I think the bottom line is that my feet don't get cold and I always bring a beanie anyway, so there's not much point in a full length UQ. I also wouldn't really compare HG and UGQ because they're both fantastic companies, for me it was more a matter of swapping from a full length to a partial length. The only reason I opted for the Phoenix is that they had a discounted returned one on sale on the site when I checked.

  9. #39
    cougarmeat's Avatar
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    When you are only 5'5" - 5'6" partial length is "full" length
    In order to see what few have seen, you must go where few have gone. And DO what few have done.

  10. #40
    Member mad_matze's Avatar
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    To anyone who is still wondering about triangle thingies, this might be illuminating. Taken from the Arrowhead website

    a.png

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