Confused or TQ+UQ temperature ratings... Please help.

[canoebie]

Good thread. I would note that an UQ protector can make a big difference particularly if it is windy and wet. I find my UQ much warmer when I use one. I do most of my hanging in northern lower Michigan during three seasons and use 20 degree top and underquilts. I have 0 degree for winter and occasionally add to that when really cold. Be careful with clothing. I think there is a "tipping point" where more clothing becomes dysfunctional. I generally sleep in a base layer and wool socks when cold.

[hangingbooger20]

HB20 and FL Hanger, you both should come out to Ocala National Forest Sept. 23-25, at Hidden Pond for Summer's Last Gasp Hang.

Hopefully, we can help you check out some gear if you would like. A planning thread should be started in the next few weeks.

I would love to... but... I will be on a backpacking trip in the indian peaks wilderness in CO that weekend... Been to hidden pond a bunch of times with the FL slackers group though.

[pgibson]

The human element is one of the fun variables to account for in warmth ratings and comfort levels. Ever see that guy in January when there is snow on the ground who is wearing a warm hat, down jacket, shorts and flip flops? How do you account for those guys when rating gear....but for MOST of us we wear the hat, jacket and warm pants with shoes. So for most of us that need equal insulation top to bottom in clothes then equal insulation top and bottom in the hammock is the proper way to judge comfort. If it's rated to 20°F then we can be comfortable at that....mixing and matching or leaving out a component then does not add up...like if I wear really warm gloves and no shoes then Im good for a hike in the snow right?...well no not really. Yes hammock gear is very modular but I think of it as a system. Bottom and top insulation work together not separately for cold weather.

[SilvrSurfr]

Just curious, since I'm not a scientist, is this based on personal experience, or do you have any science to support?

If somebody finds some science that takes into account "personal" idiosyncracies, whether you're a cold, hot or medium sleeper, I'll be highly surprised. I personally have no idea what makes me a medium sleeper, but I suspect it has something to do with me listening to my organism more than a cold sleeper does. A cold sleeper is just mentally incapable of tolerating even the slightest chill.

Then you'll find people who think wearing clothing to bed is a good idea; I don't. I've been in 20* weather with wool socks and my feet almost turned into blocks of ice (I suspect the socks trapped the moisture against my feet), but I've been in -3* F weather with no socks and was warm. There's no scientist that is going to study that, and there's no methodology that would make any sense.

It all depends on your metabolism, your core body temperature, how fat you are (how much insulation you have), and more especially, how your brain handles different temperatures. In other words, too many variables for science to provide anything but rudimentary knowledge.

[Countrybois]

Then you'll find people who think wearing clothing to bed is a good idea; I don't. I've been in 20* weather with wool socks and my feet almost turned into blocks of ice (I suspect the socks trapped the moisture against my feet), but I've been in -3* F weather with no socks and was warm. There's no scientist that is going to study that, and there's no methodology that would make any sense.

There is a solid explanation for this(and it has Nothing to do with allowing the heat to warm up your quilts)

Your feet actually help keep each other warm(legs as well) Just like two naked bodies will keep each other warmer than each would individually(in a life saving situation... Let's keep it clean here), your legs and feet do the same for each other.

Now, how well that works is probably more individualized due to body chemistry, but for you SS(and me), no socks is the way to go. I would guess there are some that prefer socks(my wife) don't ask me why there toes stay warmer that way, maybe their feet don't like each other...


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[FL Hanger]

If somebody finds some science that takes into account "personal" idiosyncracies, whether you're a cold, hot or medium sleeper, I'll be highly surprised. I personally have no idea what makes me a medium sleeper, but I suspect it has something to do with me listening to my organism more than a cold sleeper does. A cold sleeper is just mentally incapable of tolerating even the slightest chill.

Then you'll find people who think wearing clothing to bed is a good idea; I don't. I've been in 20* weather with wool socks and my feet almost turned into blocks of ice (I suspect the socks trapped the moisture against my feet), but I've been in -3* F weather with no socks and was warm. There's no scientist that is going to study that, and there's no methodology that would make any sense.

It all depends on your metabolism, your core body temperature, how fat you are (how much insulation you have), and more especially, how your brain handles different temperatures. In other words, too many variables for science to provide anything but rudimentary knowledge.

Thanks SilvrSurfr. I completely agree that you can't rely on a "fits-all" formula for general warmth, as each individual and situation has a ton of differing factors to account for. I've done enough camping/hammock camping to know what works for me as far as how warm I sleep, how much and when I need to eat and what temps elicit what insulation to keep me warm, and I'm aware that differs greatly from person to person.. I've just never used a uq before and would like to.

The science that I am really asking about, however, is the ability for the uq to warm (itself/myself) up enough to emit that heat upwards into the top quilt. I know taking a 50deg tq into 0deg temps is ludicrous, no matter what your uq temp rating is. But what about a 20deg difference? 10? is there even science behind this function? this is really what I'm trying to understand here..

At the end of the day, the weight, price and space difference is minimal, and I'm ok with that. I just get curious about these things because I like to utilize science to know where and how the "envelope" can be pushed. I think it allows for some room for creativity in a conventional world.

Thanks again for the input, this thread has been extremely helpful.

[Floridahanger]

Paul, I'm one of those weird cases.

I woke up with the shakes a couple weeks ago in July, in Florida and had to slide my UQ under me in 69-70* temps and was a little chilly the night before at 74*(no UQ, though). Breezy both nights, but less so the 2nd, cooler night.

Contrast to that, this past HangCon 2016 in January, I wore shorts the entire time, day and night (except the 5 hours while I slept nightly). I wore a beanie hat, down jacket (vest or full sleeves), long sleeve shirt, socks and shoes. It did get into the 30's most nights and 26, I think Monday morning. My legs didn't get cold at all and at night I was using quilts rated to 40's at best for most (My DIY partial UQ and Summer TQ).

I'm a warm sleeper when it's cold out and average at higher temps. Go figure.

So my experiences using different temp rating Quilt sets are basically for me on any given night at the current conditions. That's why it's always best to match the quilt sets for your expected lowest temps expected.

[hangingbooger20]

Thank you all for your knowledge and opinions... though there is still ambiguity there is also some clarity... Thank you again.

[Flounder]

In 2013, I started an AT thru hike in February. One of the first nights on the trail, the temp got down to 10 degrees. I was using a JRB Mt. Washington 4 UQ, which is rated at 0-5 degrees. My TQ was....what I thought was my JRB Old Rag Mountain rated at 5-10 degrees. I froze that night. Not uncomfortably so, but I was COLD. The next morning, I had a fellow hiker and hanger check my UQ for gaps, and there was none. The next night, while setting up, I had one of those head slap moments, when I realized my TQ was actually my JRB No Sniveller, which is rated at 25-30 degrees. They are both green, and I had grabbed the wrong one. I realized it when I saw the "head hole". I had a family member send me the correct TQ very quickly!

[ckmaui]

my wife and I are about 20-30 degrees apart in what we need to stay warm in ratings

coldest we go out is in the 20s and wife and I have a 0 under and I have a 20 top wife has a 0 top one windy wet night she was cold I was kinda cold but the wind was gnarly ! so am taking note about wind control more than a tarp but changed my bug net setup etc..

so even temps will vary IMHO with wind

I use wool socks and expedition weight long underwear and balclava sometimes a hat on top of that my wife dives under the UQ I cant stand doing that