Proposed changes to WTT Area

[dkurfiss]

Do you have to be an adult? I mean sometimes I am in-mature but seriously. Is there an age limit? For this or selling forum

No age limit.

[dkurfiss]

I see one of the proposed exclusions is: c) Electronic gear – if it requires power or batteries it cannot be traded on HF

Why exclude these items?

I ask because I currently have an item up for trade, an ENO Twilight (string of LED lights). This set of lights is to hang off your tarp or ridgeline and uses batteries. This item would be excluded by these new rules and it seems like a perfectly good hammocking item.

Good point. Thanks for the feedback

[dkurfiss]

Folks,

This is not an open discussion about changes to the entire Market Place. We can have that discussion if you would like but please open a new thread in the feedback area to do so. Please give us feedback specific to the WTT area

So with that being said I am going to try to get more data on a few items:

1) What makes WTT so special that we should raise the limits from 3 items per post to 6 or 10 or 20? Why should WTT be different from all the other areas on the item limit.

2) Why should WTT have a 14 day bump limit or 30 days and it's removed limit as opposed to the 7 day bump limit we use now. Do you expect someone to put up an item and just walk away for a week without responding at all? Is that acceptable in WTT?

3) So are you guys ok in WTT with someone jumping on your thread and saying what you are trading is a piece of crap? Because if we allow "good" feedback or recommendation on a thread, we have to also allow the bad feedback too. Is there something special about WTT that we should lift this rule?

4) Battery operated gear in WTT. You guys ok if I want to trade my GPS, iPod, Kindle or lights? Remember they will not be allowed in other areas so why should WTT area be different?

5) From Ratdog: No, "just tell me what you got" kind of posts, if you're going to trade, at least make a suggestion of items you would take in trade. Open trading still allowed but at least it's a starting point." Excellent suggestion. What do you guys think of it?

And on a side note, we do now have a dedicated Moderator for the Market Place. That would be me. While the others fill in and help out, my focus is on the Market Place area.

[TZBrown]

My thoughts

1. When I go through the gear room I always come up with more than 3 items that can go. It would be so much easier to list the group up to say 10 and edit as items are sold.

2. Items not sold or traded in 14 days probably are over priced or not wanted. If someone is looking for something they will be active most every week. OP should close those posts.

3. Feedback about the transaction would be fine, good or bad. Posting about I hate that piece of gear or such should be deleted immediately, everyone gets to have an opinion but the rest of the world doesn't need to know what it is.

4. No battery power items, anywhere...... I don't make the rules, I don't agree, but I won't go against it. We have a good community here and selling, buying, trading, to or from, the folks you have some experience with is always nicer than just posting on CL. It is a bit odd though no headlamps, ridgeline lights, GPS, but other camping accessories, chairs and tents, are allowed

5. I agree, it would be nice to know what a person is looking for, but if you really don't have a need then I guess open trading would be OK. But what about " I have a headlamp I don't use and need a ridgeline light" ?

I know with all the new folks adding to the workload it can be a nightmare to keep track of.
I thank the Mods for their hard work to try to keep order to the chaos

[OutandBack]

Hi TZBrown, thank you for your thoughts on trading here on the forums.
The best answer I can give is taken from the forum's home page. I read it like a mission statement.

In October 2006, HammockForums.net was created from whiteblaze.net to be the go-to source for hammock information. HF has always taken pride in its helpfulness, friendliness, innovation, and overall positive attitude.
=====================================
III. Stay On-Topic. This is a moderated site about hammocks. Off-topic posts will be removed from the hammock subforums.

HF was started to become the single best source of hammock information on the internet. Our goal is to provide a respectful forum for hammock enthusiasts, and to ensure that it runs smoothly…not to grow the forum, nor to provide a friendly discussion forum for general outdoor enthusiasts. Discussion of knives, stoves, paddling, backpacks and other non-hammock related issues detracts from our primary objective. Excellent information on all of these topics can be found on dozens of other sites around the internet...but only this site can claim to have the most experts on hammocks in the world and we plan to keep that focus.

All threads not directly related to hammocks will be moved to the Donating Members section. Fewer posts, but higher quality ones focused on our primary mission area, is a perfectly acceptable outcome of this policy. Please note that if you are not a donating member, you will not have access to a thread you started that gets moved to the off-topic area. You may either participate on topic in the free access areas or donate to get access.

This policy is not open for debate, so please do not email the moderators with requests that we run this forum like others you frequent.

With this mission statement in mind the buying selling and trading of general camping gear is not a part of our primary objective for this forum.
We are still the number one place to read about all things hammocks and I believe it is because our focus is so sharp.

If a HF members buys a high quality tarp, hammock, or quilt from one of the vendors here and desides that model is not for them the HF member will usually be able to sell it here very quickly with little loss of capital and we support these kinds of transactions because they are absolutely hammock related and for all the rest
we still have our sister forum Whiteblaze to discuss buy sell & trade all things general camping related.

[daneaustin3]

I have a question on prohibiting auto knives. This point is covered in the main rules of ensuring the legality of the knife you are buying. Many states have legalized autos so why specifically exclude them?

I know this is more of a marketplace question and not just a wtt question.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

[akaCat]

The one thing I'm wondering, is why have separate FS and WTT forums? I'm used to seeing the two combined. Someone will post what they want to sell/trade, and state something like "$70 or trade for X", "$70, no trades accepted", "Looking to trade for X, Y or Z." If something just isn't moving, the seller/trader then has the option to adjust the terms without messing with dual-posting or moving from one forum to the other.

The subject line would still begin with the keyword (FS, WTT, or FS/T), to make it easier to skim.

[DuctTape]

I have to say that i totally agree with Ratdog on every thing on his list and for sure the fs section has lost it's appeal to most, it's just not what it used to be. the restrictions are alittle over done and could really use some relaxing .
Like i said when the original changes were talked about awhile back, punish the abusers and not the whole comunnity !!...It's easy to know who they are, same group of folks everytime, loosen up the reigns on the rest of us.

Yup!!

I am of the opinion that when those changes were made, and even the new WTT ideas, the "asking members for feedback" was more of basic editing as we can see on this thread. The rules, regulations, protocols have already been decided and our opinion is dismissed. This thread is proof of it. The idea of changes to the WTS, WTT to make it better, less cumbersome, less work for mods was not realized and the members have demonstrated with their feet. A dedicated mod for the marketplace is evidence that the changes have no decreased moderator efforts, but increased them. Less usage by members is evidence of a failure to implement positive changes. This is but a symptom. I am saddened that hf.com has deteriorated so much since my initial joining so many years ago. You asked for feedback, that was mine.

[Ratdog]

Folks,

This is not an open discussion about changes to the entire Market Place. We can have that discussion if you would like but please open a new thread in the feedback area to do so. Please give us feedback specific to the WTT area

Got it, appreciate it, but am kind of stuck in a Catch 22. Example, yes I think number of items offered for trade should be greater than 3. Possible response, why should FT item count be different than FS item count? Answer, it shouldn't be, FS item count should be higher as well. And then we're down the rabbit hole of discussing the entire Marketplace. Appreciating that the focus should be tight on FT, then I'd say, up the item count in the FT section.

So with that being said I am going to try to get more data on a few items:

1) What makes WTT so special that we should raise the limits from 3 items per post to 6 or 10 or 20? Why should WTT be different from all the other areas on the item limit.

Don't know that it should be.
NOTE: please consider raising the count across the Marketplace.

2) Why should WTT have a 14 day bump limit or 30 days and it's removed limit as opposed to the 7 day bump limit we use now. Do you expect someone to put up an item and just walk away for a week without responding at all? Is that acceptable in WTT?

FT (or even FS) threads die a natural death, often because of abandonment. Given that the original poster is likely auto subscribed when originating a thread and is also likely notified via email when a post is made, checking back in when there is no activity is not necessarily required. That's how it works on the myriad of other forums in which I participate. I've got stuff out there for a year or two and then BAM a message and a sale. True story, happens to be esoteric motorcycle stuff but it could be anything. Point being, if I'm getting an email when someone posts to my FT thread, why would it be necessary to come back and bump it? Especially given that closed/completed transaction threads are moved to another area. If it's in the FT area (or FS area, couldn't help myself), who cares if it's 6 months old, if it's available, it's available.

3) So are you guys ok in WTT with someone jumping on your thread and saying what you are trading is a piece of crap? Because if we allow "good" feedback or recommendation on a thread, we have to also allow the bad feedback too. Is there something special about WTT that we should lift this rule?

This one is a bit trickier, it's a matter of degrees, grey not black and white. Black and white keeps it simple but the idea here is to foster activity, help folks get stuff gone. I think my gut reaction is that the axe has fallen too swiftly and cleanly of late.

4) Battery operated gear in WTT. You guys ok if I want to trade my GPS, iPod, Kindle or lights? Remember they will not be allowed in other areas so why should WTT area be different?

Same thing, it ought to be offered in other areas. And if you are ok stating as much, then it should also be ok for me to point out changes that would apply to both FS/FT areas. Again, please don't take this as argumentative, intending to have a discussion here and feeling that Catch22/looping thing happening again. Hammock camping/camping related electronics really ought to be allowed.

5) From Ratdog: No, "just tell me what you got" kind of posts, if you're going to trade, at least make a suggestion of items you would take in trade. Open trading still allowed but at least it's a starting point." Excellent suggestion. What do you guys think of it?

And on a side note, we do now have a dedicated Moderator for the Market Place. That would be me. While the others fill in and help out, my focus is on the Market Place area.

Deb, really do thank you for your efforts, across the board. I don't have to agree with your actions/methods/decisions a 100% of the time to appreciate both you and all the mods. Please understand that.

The one thing that comes to mind when I hear the workload discussion is, many hands make light work. I'm not sure if any of the mods feel burdened, overworked, understaffed or completely satisfied. No idea. But I do know this place is large enough that should the Marketplace, HF or any section of HF need additional moderation, there are folks that would be willing to help and of those, some might even be qualified. We have our share of opinionated loudmouths, curmudgeons, experts, near genius but by and large, both online and in person, this has to be one of the most generous, outdoor loving and helpful communities I have ever had the pleasure to engage. Indeed only folks on the water have rivaled it in this sense.

[OutandBack]

Yup!!

snip... The idea of changes to the WTS, WTT to make it better, less cumbersome, less work for mods was not realized and the members have demonstrated with their feet. A dedicated mod for the marketplace is evidence that the changes have no decreased moderator efforts, but increased them. Less usage by members is evidence of a failure to implement positive changes. This is but a symptom. I am saddened that hf.com has deteriorated so much since my initial joining so many years ago. You asked for feedback, that was mine.

I don't know how you could possible know the workload of the mods.
Deb has volunteered to watch over the FS forum it was not assigned do to workload. She just enjoys doing that.
I was spending 2 hours every day babysitting the non hammock yardsales before we shut them down.

Now I spend 5 minutes every morning looking the new hammock related sales over and the rest of my time is spent helping the new members. The reason I wanted to be a mod in the first place.

If you are not having a good time here maybe you have burned out on this hobby, many do.
Maybe you have learned all there is to know and have no interest in helping the new folks get up to speed.
Don't blame that on the forum.
I get thank you notes from new members daily.