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  1. #1
    Senior Member
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    Clark Vertex, first hang report/review

    Copied from my reddit post.

    tl;dr : Excellent service and quality. Experience very sensitive to good site selection! If you don't have the right trees, it really doesn't work well. 3 trees in the right configuration aren't as common as one might think. Even with the problems, better than sleeping on the ground, but maybe think about getting 2 hammocks instead. Accessories (UQ, fly) are not readily shareable between the Vertex and other hammocks.

    So, I started hammock camping a few years ago. My first hammock was a Clark NX-250 I got used. I was pretty quickly hooked. So much more comfortable than the ground. It was a big disappointment and a literal pain the the butt every time I went camping with my wife/family due to having to go back to ground.

    I recently finally convinced my wife to let me get a Vertex, so we could hang together. (I could have gone down the multiple hammock routes, but she wants to be together, especially since we have a kid). I bought this new from Clark, and I got what I believe is v3 of the Hammock (full velcro for UQs, and tent poles at both ends)

    First off, the service from Clark was awesome. They answered my multiple questions quickly, accurately, and politely via phone and email, and the took extra care to ensure the hammock came in time for my trip (I only ordered 15 days ahead). Also, as always, the build quality of the hammock is excellent. They are really high end materials and workmanship. If you haven't used a Clark before, they are really the high end in the market. I've used some friend's ENOs and and tested some friend's hammocks, and there is no comparison IMO. On the other hand, you pay for that quality in both money and weight.

    Things generally about the Vertex hammock, not specific to my trip

    My NX250 uses whoopie slings and carabiners for suspension, along with a pair of ENO Atlas tree straps. I find that setup quite easy to use, but sometimes if trees are too close, the whoopie slings can't be shortened enough to hang correctly. For this trip I used the stock Vertex suspension (ropes and drip rings) along with 3 Atlas Straps. Overall the suspension worked great. The drip ring/rope hang method is easy to set up, and easy to adjust. The ropes are very long. I was able to use the Atlas' straps shortest attachment point, even with trees that were too far away. For the Clark tree straps, they show them wrapping completely around the tree with no slack to avoid stretching, so I think thats why they make the ropes so long. I could see this suspension being better than the whoopie solution, because you can hang with an arbitrarily short distance, whereas the whoopies have a minimum required distance. The only downside to the suspension is that I had to untie the 3 "locking" half-hitches to adjust the hammock. Its not a huge deal, but I did miss the whoopie convenience of just sliding the knot after things were already hung. The Vertex video shows them sliding the knot after it was locked, but I couldn't get it to work. Maybe I did something wrong though. I might think about replacing the ropes with amsteel, but continuing to use the suspension the way they do it, with just the swap out for size/weight. Have to think about how the knots would work with the smaller rope tho and if that would cause any issues. https://youtu.be/hHCK59zzvn8?t=98

    The Vertex is HUGE inside. It feels like a 2-3 person tent. But a huge amount of that space is taken up by the middle storage area. For me that worked out, because my toddler slept there, but I don't know that it is the best use of space for everyone.

    The vertex beds are a lot narrower than the NX250. Or at least they feel that way. On an NX250, the tent poles serve to both hold up the bugnet/weathershield, and to spread the hammock bed. On the Vertex, the poles only suspend the net/shield. The bed compresses around your shoulder with the tension of your weight. Since my only hammock camping experience is with the NX250, this probably isn't a super fair comparison, since every other tent on the market probably also behaves this way, but it was a bit of a surprise coming from the NX250.

    The vertex included shock corded poles. The NX250 poles are loose. While the shock cording is nice, it uses a style with external cord attached with brackets, rather than internal attachment. This wasn't a big deal, but the brackets did catch on the hammock a bit when trying to insert the poles.

    I didn't buy the Vertex rain fly, as I have a Kammock "Glider" fly I was going to dedicate to the Vertex. I don't know how it would have worked though, because the weather was so good I didn't even put up the fly. (Although in retrospect, I should have put it up for more shade, which might have kept the hammock cooler in the day). Other than needing to add a second tie-out to the head side of the fly (because there are two head trees) I do not anticipate any issues with using this fly. Thats the same solution the Vertex fly uses (two tie outs). Obviously YMMV on the size of your fly if it can cover both beds with enough coverage. I suppose its possible the glider would not have been big enough tho.

    I miss the integrated stuff sack from the NX250. MAde it easy to store, and could also put the poles under the velcro. The Vertex comes with a nice stuff sack. Even though it feels huge, its a tight fit to get this giant hammock into the sack. Online videos show people storing their poles with the sack with a couple of elastic bands around the stuff sack, but they must have bought those separately (or clark changed their accessories) , because I didn't get any.

    My trip

    So over Fathers day, we spent 3 days at a state park, in the walk-in sites. Ridiculously awesome vistas from the walk-ins. This is the view from the campfire. https://goo.gl/photos/Jr6hr6xMJKYZS46u6

    Unfortunately, things did not go as well as I had hoped. My family actually reserved two walk-in sites. One for my family, and one for my in-laws. Neither site had a good set of 3 trees. Site selection is obviously not the hammock's fault, but it does mean there is a real risk of not being able to hang the Vertex! To be fair, neither site would have been optimal for a regular hammock either. The walk-in sites were clear cut for the camping area, with no standing trees in the cleared area. There were lots of trees surrounding the walk in sites (which are VERY nice and isolated), but deep thick brush started almost immediately at the edge of the cleared area.

    The car camping sites seemed to have more "internal" trees in the cleared space, and I saw several people hanging from hammocks as we walked around (mostly relaxation hammocks, they all had tents too). I *think* I saw some sites that had 3 trees that would work, but certainly not all of the sites. In "backwoods" I think it would probably be much easier to find trees, but in a state park, the choice was limited. Also, your ability to use trees will be affected by how strictly you follow LNT.

    I admit it, I was a bad camper, and left a trace. There were 3 trees I thought would work just on the edge of the site, with only small undergrowth between them. I ended up pruning away a few small seedlings that risked poking through the bottom of the hammock, and crushing some of the undergrowth walking to the trees and to get in. However, even leaving a trace, the site didn't really work well.

    The "foot" tree was uphill from the head trees, and one of the head trees was probably 20+ feet from the foot tree. Clark recommends 13-18 feet between trees. Again, poor site selection is not the Hammock's fault, but if the site isn't available, the hammock isn't usable. The problem I had is basically directly described in the manual.

    > To achieve the right slack, you may need to tie the ropes as high on the tree as possible to keep it off the ground. Do not pull the hammock taut to keep it off the ground. It becomes very difficult to give the hammock the right slack if the trees are more than 18 feet apart. Find closer trees if possible (13-18 feet between head and foot-end trees).

    Also, the hammock had an errata/warning sheet on the very top with a giant warning about the angle of the head ropes needing to be right, or risk ripping the hammock apart and that doing so would void your warranty. To get that close to something I though was safe, I had to basically hang the foot end immediately next to the foot tree (1 foot distance?) with the entire distance between trees taken up by the hammock and the head ropes.

    Because of the problems below, I had to essentially rehang the hammock 5-6 times. With better experience about knowing how to hang (slack) the Vertex, and better site selection, I think this would not be an issue.

    https://imgur.com/zG0IrlD

    Because the foot end was on higher ground, we could not lower the foot end any further, without sitting on the ground. On the head ends, I put the ropes absolutely as high as I could (wife sitting on my shoulders, with her arms fully extended. Probably 10+ feet up?) (the slope of the head ropes is specifically discussed in the manual and they say to hang them as high as possible, so they go down to the hammock)

    I basically had two devil's choices. Either increase tension to raise the head, or sleep inverted. Since there are warnings all over the manual about too much tension possibly ripping the hammock apart, and it was my first ever try with this hammock, I chose inverted. Even choosing inversion, there was very little slack in the weathershield when empty, and I was slightly worried about damage to the hammock. The zippers were tight sometimes, and the tent poles were acting wierd (more on the poles later)

    https://i.imgur.com/MqHQPiC.png

    https://goo.gl/photos/5xaQ9GLKYP5uu7zJ7



    It wasn't ridiculously inverted, my feet were probably less than 6 inches above my head (maybe a 15 degree slope?), but it was enough to push me to the tip of the hammock. That actually worked out a bit, because the "up" slope of the head end of the hammock served as a pillow, and to raise our heads a bit, but also put a bit of a bend into our necks.

    I hung my NX-250 from the same set of trees, and really had no issues. Since there aren't the concerns about the lateral stress on a single hammock, I could put the head of the hammock near the head tree (or hell, just flip the hammock around the other way). I could have relatively easily hung 3 hammocks between the 3 trees with few issues I think (although one of the set of the trees was at the edge of usability, depending on your ropes/straps).Basically the double hammock makes site selection much more difficult and risky.

    The poles at the head end acted funky. I'm not sure if it was due to the tension, or due to where we had our weight. (Or its possible this is how it should work?) With our heads near the tip of the hammock, the tent poles were between our neck and our shoulders. Comparably, when I hang the NX250, the poles are usually above my head. The Vertex poles bent in a strange S curve when we were in the hammock. I weight 260+ and my wife is in the 150 range. Between that weight difference and the tension/rope distances between the two beds, I think the physics are fairly easy to understand, but I worry about if the poles and fabric can deal with that type of stress. Also, the tent pole bowed so much on my side that the tip was poking into my shoulder. Again, if I were able to get farther towards the foot end I think that would likely not be as much of an issue as the pole would be above my head (and perhaps would not bow so much with my weight further down)

    During the daytime, it was in the high 80s. At night it got down to mid 60s. No rain or humidity. At naptimes, the hammock was hot, but I think this would be true for any tent or hammock, so I can't really ding. As I said above, I probably could have helped things here by hanging the fly for additional shade and reflectivity.

    On the first night, I didn't use any underquilts. My wife did sleep on a sleeping pad tho, but mainly to spread out her bed and give her some additional support. She did not complain about temps (which is a big suprise to me!) I did have cold-butt-syndrome, which woke me up a few times, but was not a super big deal.

    The second night, I decided to use some underquilts. I was a bit improvisational here.

    On one side, I cannibalized my NX250 underquilt. The NX250 quilt us unusual, because of the design of the NX250. It has one large piece for the foot end, and then 6 pillows that go into the NX250 pockets to make a complete quilt. I took the foot end and applied it to the head end of the Vertex. The quilt has a loop of velcro to attach around the hammock end/rope, as well as strips of velcro along the edge to mate with velcro on the Hammock. The vertex has similar velcro, but as the beds are not the same size, it wasn't a perfect match. Also, there is nothing holding the bottom end/side of the quilt up when used on the Vertex. When I hung it it seemed to hang low, but I figured it would be better than nothing. With weight in the hammock, the gap seemed to disappear, and I thought it would be a nice, if imperfect addition. Again my wife did not complain about temps, but in the morning the underquilt was hanging on the ground. So, not a winning plan.

    On the other side, I used a HammockGear full length underquilt, which hangs via small clips. On my NX250, I clip those to either the spreader bars, or the whoopie. On the Vertex, it was a problem to hang. The ropes were too thick for the clip. The spreader bar is available on one side, but the other spreader bar is on the other hammock bed! Fortunately the elastic is quite long in the underquilt and I was able to stretch it across. On initial look, it appeared to be hanging correctly. In the morning, the underquilt was firmly under the storage area (yay for my toddler staying warmer?)

    If UQ are your preferred method of insulation, I think the custom Vertex UQs are likely the only real option that would work. Unfortunately they are rather expensive, and not portable to other hammocks. If you are going to have a kid in the middle, there does not seem to be a good way to insulate that area, other than a sleeping pad. Maybe Clark should add a UQ piece for the storage area (I'm willing to beta test Clark!)

    Perhaps some custom maker could make a giant fitted UQ that covers both beds and the storage area, but it would be ridiculously expensive, and also not really usable for any other purpose other than the Vertex.

    So, in the end, quite a few issues. Most of them site selection related, and some gear related. But both sets of issues would have been easier to solve with two separate hammocks. On the other hand, I would really need 3 separate hammocks, and convincing wife and 3 year old to sleep separately is somewhat of a non-starter for them (and me). I have several more trips planned this summer, and I'm not giving up on the Vertex yet, but my wife told me I'm required to bring a tent for her as backup until we get things figured out.

  2. #2
    Senior Member AdventureMyk's Avatar
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    Sounds like 90% of the demerits came back to site selection. Did you ever get to try setting it up before you took the trip? The Vertex isn't perfect (no hammock is without compromise) but for my uses it has been great. I would love to see one with a pair the equivalent to my NX-270 but I don't think I want to know what they would have to charge for it.
    I've never had the S-bend you described in the top pole. That sounds like you had the hammock torqued in an odd way but as you said the site selection had a lot to do with it. I have the --liners and they are bulky but work well. I still plan to get an Incubator 20 soon.
    Bring the Vertex and the family out to the Smokies in East TN and we can show you a lot of great 3-tree areas.

  3. #3
    Senior Member
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    I did a very brief setup in my local kids park first, but the trees were better, so had no issues, but I also didn't try to sleep in it.

    I've been in contact with Clark, and they are making updates to the manual. In particular they are dropping this warning page, which was the main thing I was using to drive my setup (Don't want to risk ripping $500 up on the first night!). https://i.imgur.com/IzCNsh2.png

    With the new instructions, I would have been able to move the hammock closer to the head trees, which would have increased the head rope angles, but also raised the head quite a bit. Once I was horizontal, I could have moved my body away from the head of the hammock, which likely would have fixed the pole issues (plus I wouldn't be hanging like I was in the lost boys!)

    That would have let me raise the foot rope for more slack, and I think I would have had a much better experience.

    How would you hang the incubator? For most of the standard cottage UQs, I would think they would all have the problem I had where there is no good attachment point in the middle of the vertex. If I can figure out how to hang a "normal" UQ, that would help, because multi-purpose is much easier to justify to the wife! The way it is now, I would have to buy two of the Vertex UQs, which is a tough sell. I think Clark would be wise to make their UQs compatible across all their line (or with non-Clark hammocks) which would make them an easier sell. Sewing some tabs on the side where you could use suspension would make em usable (though probably not optimal, since they don't loft as much to make an air tight fit)

  4. #4
    Senior Member AdventureMyk's Avatar
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    If you get 2 Z-liners there is a big price break and the center part might be fussy for the incubator. I'm wondering if a short run of Velcro to keep it centered would work? I've never had a chance to play with a regular underquilt so I'm taking a shot in the dark. The newer Version 2.0 (mine) and 3.0 (yours) has Velcro for a middle z-liner. They talked about it a few times but haven't mentioned it being available yet. Good chance it will be out this fall.
    Site and setup will make or break any hammock and I had a few teething bits myself. Main thing is not to have it too taught. There should be a thick nylon strap joining the head end to keep from potentially splitting it but I'd rather not rely on it.
    For what its worth I've only found 3 campbsites the Vertex won't work and all 3 were car camping spots. Hopefully your luck will swing it around.
    Oh, adjusting with the drop rings means giving it a little slack then slide the rings. Just like whoopies they don't move under tension.

  5. #5
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    Thanks for the review. Seems like a bad site for this hammock. Best case scenario is to choose a site that has a few options for trees, such as in the woods. If the only choice is a site where there are only three trees and one of them is up on a hill, chances of success will drop. Apparently the instructions needed updates that would have helped the reviewer hang this hammock. For example, there is no danger of ripping the hammock because there are built-in safeguards and nice reinforcements. Both the bed and storage sections hold many times the advertised weights. A large strap keeps the hammock from taking any unwanted lateral stress. This means that even if the head-end trees are farther apart than ideal, you can't hurt the product. See some more reviews at https://www.amazon.com/Clark-Vertex-.../dp/B01345TR92

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