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  1. #71
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    I think the company is pretty clear that the pack CAN be punctured and that if you want the food to be protected from said punctures, then you need to buy the liner.
    I would rather have some of my food possible punctured or crushed, and still be edible/salvagable, then out right stolen or consumed.
    There's nothing preventing you from hanging the Ursack either, but in the event you cant hang it....well, at least its not going to get stolen by an animal.

  2. #72
    HandyRandy's Avatar
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    The bear didn’t get any food. Maybe it got a bit of PB on it’s tooth, but that’s made less likely due to the extra layer of plastic on the inside if you think about it.So what if it did? It’s not like bears are stupid and now this one just had an epiphany from some unexpected discovery as a result of that smidge of PB. No, it knew there was food in there well before its teeth sank in. It won’t continue to waste more and more time on something that will only ever allow its teeth or claws to pierce. Bears need calories to survive. As long as the bag can’t be ripped apart, it will not satisfy the bear and that is the critical concern. If you don’t like the tradeoff of less pack space for loss of crush and pierce resistance, then don’t use it. You should understand the intricacies of the gear you use, so that you don’t run into surprises in the wild such as this.

  3. #73
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    I think the Ursack folks have been pretty honest about what their product does and doesn't do. For me, it's vastly better than searching in fading light for a suitable branch and wearing my arm out with near endless attempts to throw a cord over it for the PCT method while hoping the line doesn't snag in an adjacent branch getting permanently stuck. Many of the western forests simply don't have branches that will work and I'll confess multiple instances of bears getting my food because it was hung food too close to the trunk (there simply were no other options).

    Another thing the PCT method aficionados don't mention is that pulling the line cuts into the bark on the limb, which causes me to feel guilty every time I use it.

    I also use a BV450 sometimes when required or warranted (higher risk areas) but much prefer the lighter weight and better packability of the Ursack.

    Keep in mind that there are multiple ways that any food storage system can fail. Carbon fiber canisters have reportedly been smashed. Canisters can be rolled off and lost. Bears have learned to open BV. Hikers have gone hungry after failing to be able to open their BV (hint, learn the credit card trick). Other canisters likely have their weak points as well.

  4. #74
    Senior Member esmith's Avatar
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    Simply, If the bear in any way can come into direct contact with the food. HUGE FAIL.

    This product is useless in my eyes. it's heavy compared to a regular stuff sack and the food is just as uneatable if the bear gets hold of either.

    The idea that the manufacturer gets to keep moving the goal line whenever they are confronted with actual product failure just makes me want to run away from them fast.

    Seriously, you don't get to say it worked if the bear was able to reach the actual food. Tooth on the food is a goal scored for the bear.

    Size of the hole, amount of food the bear got, the amount of bear spit inside the bag are just interesting facts. If the bear got through the bag, at all, any size hole, the product failed.

    I always thought it was nonsense to put the bag around the trunk of the tree where the bear can get it with ease and accept that the bear will chew it to powder so you have to eat crushed food. Now that I know the manufacturer expects the bear to have some limited success in getting at the food directly and sees this as acceptable I won't buy anything from them.

    It's a very expensive piece of junk to me.

    Imagine a car dealer knowing the airbags going off will kill you dead but because they kill you before any other part of the accident does, they are considered to have worked correctly.... This is what Ursak would have you believe.

  5. #75
    HandyRandy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by esmith View Post
    Simply, If the bear in any way can come into direct contact with the food. HUGE FAIL.

    This product is useless in my eyes. it's heavy compared to a regular stuff sack and the food is just as uneatable if the bear gets hold of either.

    The idea that the manufacturer gets to keep moving the goal line whenever they are confronted with actual product failure just makes me want to run away from them fast.

    Seriously, you don't get to say it worked if the bear was able to reach the actual food. Tooth on the food is a goal scored for the bear.

    Size of the hole, amount of food the bear got, the amount of bear spit inside the bag are just interesting facts. If the bear got through the bag, at all, any size hole, the product failed.

    I always thought it was nonsense to put the bag around the trunk of the tree where the bear can get it with ease and accept that the bear will chew it to powder so you have to eat crushed food. Now that I know the manufacturer expects the bear to have some limited success in getting at the food directly and sees this as acceptable I won't buy anything from them.

    It's a very expensive piece of junk to me.

    Imagine a car dealer knowing the airbags going off will kill you dead but because they kill you before any other part of the accident does, they are considered to have worked correctly.... This is what Ursak would have you believe.
    Bear cans will sometimes fail and when they do, the bear gets ALL the food in their belly. With the Ursack, the worst that ever happens is a tiny bit of food gets in the bear’s belly. Now that you know bear cans fail in a more disastrous way, do you also consider them useless? If you were a hungry bear, your time is better spent on cracking cans or breaking branches rather than chewing on a Ursack. The bigger the animal, the more calories it needs and the less time it has to do things that don’t result in calories consumed.

    Nothing worth carrying is going to guarantee protection from a bear. Just like any other ultralight gear item, there WILL be some compromises. That does not make them useless to everybody.

  6. #76
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    Man this is a spirited debate with very passionate views on both sides. To me, it just seems it is going to be up to each person whether they think the product is worth it or not. Fortunately for me, bears are very scarce here and very reclusive. The Ursack seems ok for most situations here as there is little likelihood of a bear showing up anyway. The longer I were planning to stay out, the more remote I was planning on being, and the more likely a bear would show up would sway me more to a stronger container. But ultimately I figure just like every other piece of gear, no matter what I was using, I would accept it could fail.


    I do like this thread though as it is interesting to see the different perspectives brought by both sides.

  7. #77
    joe_guilbeau's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Miquel Westano View Post
    Man this is a spirited debate with very passionate views on both sides. To me, it just seems it is going to be up to each person whether they think the product is worth it or not. Fortunately for me, bears are very scarce here and very reclusive. The Ursack seems ok for most situations here as there is little likelihood of a bear showing up anyway. The longer I were planning to stay out, the more remote I was planning on being, and the more likely a bear would show up would sway me more to a stronger container. But ultimately I figure just like every other piece of gear, no matter what I was using, I would accept it could fail.


    I do like this thread though as it is interesting to see the different perspectives brought by both sides.
    That's why I NEVER leave home without my Bear Claw Guarantee Claim Adjuster Insurance Tool.

    Simply whip out after epic fail and enlarge tooth holes! But wait! For a limited time, you get two for the price of one; as seen on Naked and Afraid Griz Edition...
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by joe_guilbeau; 05-18-2018 at 17:46.

  8. #78
    SilvrSurfr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HandyRandy View Post
    The bear didn’t get any food. Maybe it got a bit of PB on it’s tooth, but that’s made less likely due to the extra layer of plastic on the inside if you think about it.So what if it did? It’s not like bears are stupid and now this one just had an epiphany from some unexpected discovery as a result of that smidge of PB. No, it knew there was food in there well before its teeth sank in. It won’t continue to waste more and more time on something that will only ever allow its teeth or claws to pierce.
    I agree - I see no reward. Next time, bear will say, "I'm not spending 45 minutes of my time and countless calories to get a smidge of peanut butter on my tooth and five calories of sustenance." The bear might even puncture something and know beyond the shadow of a doubt he's found food, but if he can't gain sustenance, why would a bear attack the next Ursack he sees? Bears aren't stupid; next time they'll know it's a waste of time. As mentioned above, bears need calories to survive.

    Besides, when bear canisters, bear vaults, etc., first started out, they claimed to be 10% effective, but now they claim to be 60% effective! So no Ursack for me because I prefer something that the bear can only get into 40% of the time? Does not compute; I'll stick with the Ursack.

    I quickly grew disenchanted with the PCT method for the reasons people have described: limbs too high, or too low, or too close to the trunk. You can literally hike around for an hour trying to find a decent hang, and maybe even forget where your campsite is. Of course, if I do find a decent limb, I will hang my Ursack, but that is rare.

    I've been using my Ursack about seven years now; never had a problem with it. I will continue to use it.
    Last edited by SilvrSurfr; 05-18-2018 at 19:06.
    "A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds." Ralph Waldo Emerson

  9. #79
    OlTrailDog's Avatar
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    I have a couple models of Ursack, the S29 and an earlier double model that I picked up at the thrift store for a pittance. The advantage of a ursack over a vault is they conform to your pack and fit in a pack much easier. Since I spent a lifetime, well approaching a lifetime in a few more years anyway ;-), working in griz country with food storage regulations I've hanging food, when not using bear resistant mule panniers, has just become second nature, ursack or not.

    I'm glad you posted your experience, as it emphasizes the wisdom of hanging versus leaving stuff on the ground. Unfortunately, it is the fear of failures that has the National Park Service refusing to accept ursacks whereas the Forest Service has approved them for use. Your experience may only serve to justify the NPS recalcitrance if it isn't completely justified, i.e. truly a reward.

  10. #80
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    Hey, folks:

    Long time lurker here, this thread has content that's too enticing to not weigh in. I think there's something that we're all overlooking as we descend into the realm of opinion and jousting. The Ursack has done exactly what the manufacturer says it would do, no more and no less. I see the article as providing a service, which - as described in the OP - it has done. Before I bought mine, I checked out the Ursack website, watched their test video (with Grizzly bears), and read the statements. It's done exactly what it says it would: not let a bear inside, and not sustain a hole more than 1/4".

    Beyond that, it's a matter of opinion whether peanut butter on bear tooth is a reward - if, indeed, that happened. Also, it's a matter of preference whether you want/can accept crushed food. Again, it's a matter of preference as to how and how much effort you want to put in to the PCT method vs. what's recommended for the Ursack to hang the bag.

    As with most (all?) situations in life, there's a compromise involved. It's good to know the full limits of the choices available, and make the best choice possible given the circumstance. Unfortunately, in my experience, there are very few "one size fits all" solutions. From there, it's HYOH.

    In summary, there's good info here. However, I don't see the Ursack company as having done anything short of what it says it would do.

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